Protecting Your Career: The Essentials of Professional Liability Insurance

In this episode of Tech Takes, guest host David Terlizzi, Director of Member Engagement at OACETT, explores the often-overlooked but critically important topic of professional liability insurance for technicians and technologists—an essential safeguard in today’s complex professional landscape.

Joined by Michael Loeters, Senior Vice President of Commercial Insurance and Risk Management at ProLink Insurance, the conversation uncovers the hidden risks many professionals face, from casual design suggestions to informal advice shared over email. Together, they discuss how liability can arise even without formal contracts or payment, and why understanding your coverage—whether you’re an employee or an independent contractor—is key to protecting your career.

Discover how professional liability and general liability insurance work, why defense costs alone can be significant, and when it’s the right time to ensure you’re properly covered—because managing risk isn’t just smart, it’s a fundamental part of responsible professional practice.

Have a topic you’d like to discuss or comments about the episode? Reach us at techtakes@oacett.org.

Transcript

Tech Takes: Episode 19

Protecting Your Career: The Essentials of Professional Liability Insurance

Tech Takes: Episode 19

Protecting Your Career: The Essentials of Professional Liability Insurance

David Terlizzi: 00:09 - 01:52

Hello and welcome to Tech Takes, a podcast where we talk about the people, projects, and trends shaping Ontario's tech and applied science community. I'm your guest host, David Trelazy. Here's a question. What if a single email, a quick technical comment in a meeting, or a casual design suggestion could turn into a lawsuit, personally naming you? Even if you didn't sign anything, would you shrug it off or would alarm bells start ringing? Today, we're diving into the hidden liability risks that many technicians and technologists don't even know they're carrying. To help us unpack what this means and how to protect yourself, we're joined by Michael Loders, Senior Vice President of Commercial Insurance and Risk Management at ProLink Insurance. Michael has spent more than 20 years working with design firms on insurance and risk management, and he's one of the leading voices in the industry when it comes to protecting technical professionals. Michael, welcome to the show. I'm looking forward to talking about why professional liability insurance is becoming less optional and more essential and to what every technical professional should be asking for before problem arises. Welcome, Michael. Thank you, David. Thank you for having me on. I must say, folks, before we begin, Michael and I have this thing. He's a man who I can impress with his fancy socks. I appreciate a man who wears great socks, so there we go. All right, Michael, let's get into it, shall we? We talked about this before. Professional liability insurance isn't top of mind, but it should be. And so how do I determine if I were a member, how would I determine if I have, if, if I have personal liability insurance as a designer, how do I determine that?

Michael Loeters: 01:54 - 03:37

How do you determine if you have the insurance to begin with? Um, Well, it's really two. If you work for yourself, obviously you would know whether you have gone out and purchased a policy, let's say through the OACETT program. But if you work, but the vast majority OACETT members actually work for somebody else. And so that's where kind of the critical question comes in, which is what is the question that a technician or technologist who works for somebody else needs to be asking their employer to ensure that they are actually covered. And the question they need to be asking is, their employer is, hey, I am out there offering my knowledge, my expertise as a technician or technologist, do you, my employer, have a policy, specifically a professional liability policy that will defend me Uh, in the event that somebody comes and tries to sue us as an organization and or me specifically as the technician or technologist, uh, if they feel that I made an error or there was something that maybe I should have told them, but I didn't and I get sued in my capacity as a technician or technologist. So. The reality is, David, is there are lots of different types of professional liability policies out there. But what OACETT members need to understand is, is that the type of policy they need to be asking their employer for needs to be very specific. It has to be a policy designed for and covering technicians and technologists. And that's the key part of the question.

David Terlizzi: 03:39 - 03:52

So, okay, Michael, that's interesting. But, but I, as a designer, what, what insurance should I actually get to protect myself? Like from an allegation of that, that it was negligent designing, say a widget. Does that matter? Like, is there a particular one I should be getting?

Michael Loeters: 03:53 - 06:26

Yeah. And maybe, maybe we should just maybe take one step back and that is, um, if I am a technician or technologist, When can I get soup? Um, and what the law says is that if you offer advice to a third party, where you are using your knowledge, your skills, your training, your education as a technician or a technologist, and that third party is taking action, uh, making decisions, relying upon the advice that you gave them. And they feel that you gave them bad information, wrong information, neglected to give them information that they should have known, but they wouldn't because that's why they talk to you. Uh, if somebody is relying upon your expertise, then the reality is you can be sued. And that's what doesn't matter whether you're working for yourself, doesn't matter whether you're doing something for a friend or a family member, or whether that's in your capacity as an employee for whoever you work for. Uh, so, uh, what the courts have basically established is designers, whether you're an engineer, an architect, a technician, a technologist, they hold professionals to the same standard as a surgeon. It's a really high standard. In fact, many would probably argue it's maybe unfair, uh, to be held to that standard, but for the courts, it's all about the protection of the public. So when you are offering your knowledge and your advice to third parties and they are relying upon it, the law holds you to a very high standard. Uh, and that's why, uh, you need to make sure that when you are doing that, that's part, like I said, whether you're doing that, uh, moonlighting in the evenings, you know, doing stuff for family and friends, even if you're not getting paid for it, by the way, that's not a requirement to be paid for it. Uh, it's just, if you are offering that advice or you're doing it as part of your job, it really doesn't matter. Um, you could be sued. And so, um, uh, that's why the asking the question around, geez, you know, I'm doing this, I'm, I'm operating solo here. So should I have some coverage for myself? The answer is probably yes. And if I'm working for my employer, then you need to make sure that your employer's covering you properly.

David Terlizzi: 06:28 - 06:56

That, you know, Michael, that's, that's incredible. When you think about it, I, I suspect most people are aware that professional engineers have a requirement for insurance. You mentioned doctors. And it's pretty incredible that there, there may be technicians, technologists out there who may need this product and not even realize it. And it's, it's pretty, pretty incredible now without naming names or, or such, but I'm curious or just specific situations. What are the most common situations where technicians, technologists, to be frank, are kind of surprised to find themselves personally named in a claim?

Michael Loeters: 06:58 - 09:27

Yeah, it's a good question. Oftentimes, a lot of designers think that the only way they can get sued is if they actually produce a design, like a drawing. And certainly, if you produce something like a drawing, like something very tangible like that, and let's say, you know, gets submitted for a permit, and somebody builds something based on that drawing, well, that's pretty obvious. Where a lot of technicians and technologists are surprised is that they just offered advice. And in some cases, they might have think the advice was relatively informal. Meaning that they're just looking at something as an example, uh, out in the field and you know, a person, a contractor, an owner or whatever says, Hey, what do you think? And what do you think I should do? Or what do you think the problem is and what types of options do you think I should be looking at to solve this problem? And you're like, well, you know, uh, I would do this. I would suggest this. I would look into this. I would look into that. Um, well, you just gave professional advice. Now this person who knows what your qualifications are is going to rely on that. And if there was a problem with the advice that you gave, um, there's always the possibility they can come back and hold you liable. Um, so that's kind of the first thing I think that most designers are very, um, uh, surprised about, uh, is that it doesn't have to be a drawing. It could just be, you know, some other form of advice. And the second thing is that they feel they have to be paid for it. And it's not a requirement to be paid for it. So for example, a lot OACETT members work for organizations where they're offering advice to customers, but their customers aren't necessarily paying for it. They're not paying them like an hourly rate or a fee for it. that advice is more or less in a lot of cases built into the product or the, you know, or whatever the end product or services that's being offered to the customer, they're not charging specifically for it. In a lot of cases, it could just be a value add that you're offering. But The reality is, is you've have now offered that advice. Uh, you've offered your expertise. And again, as soon as a person is in a position where they're going to make a decision using that information or that advice, uh, there's a liability that now goes directly back to you as a designer.

David Terlizzi: 09:28 - 09:32

That's incredible. And you can actually speak to cases such as this one. That's pretty amazing.

Michael Loeters: 09:33 - 10:18

Oh, many, many. Listen, David, when people get sued the first time, they're always shocked. They're always surprised. They never expected it to happen. I never expected it to happen in this situation. I didn't think they would be the person to sue me. I thought my I thought my employer had covers to cover me. Well, I'm a sub-consultant to another design firm, for example. Well, I thought that design firm that I was working for automatically covered me. I've heard all of it, and it's really, really unfortunate, and it's a really difficult conversation that we sometimes have with people when they learn that they're really not covered in any of these places.

David Terlizzi: 10:19 - 10:40

That's pretty incredible. You mentioned sub-consultants and that does happen on occasion where a large firm and you have a, say a sub-consultant with specific expertise or whatnot, but that, that input is, is the input of a broader designer or whatnot. Are you suggesting that that sub-consultant, um, can you confirm whether the prime consultant's professional ability applies to me? Like, like, how does that work? You know what I mean?

Michael Loeters: 10:41 - 11:45

Yeah, and it's hard to give a blanket answer to that because whatever professional liability insurance that prime, let's say the designer who's the prime on that project, has all those policies could be a little bit different. And oftentimes even they don't necessarily understand the intricacies of the coverage. So for example, some policies that they have might say, oh yes, we will extend coverage to sub consultants, but only if the sub consultant has their own coverage, or they have to have the same limit of coverage that you have. Well, If you don't have any coverage, then the prime's policy is not, is actually not extending to you. Um, and you know, and it is not that the prime is, uh, intentionally not covering you. Oftentimes, David, they didn't even know that requirement was in their policy.

David Terlizzi: 11:46 - 11:48

Interesting. Interesting.

Michael Loeters: 11:48 - 12:53

Yeah. And the other thing that a lot of people don't realize is even if the policy does extend to them. when their insurance company pays a claim, and they go through the investigation of what happened, and let's say they determined that the sub consultant, the technician or technologist was 1% negligent, 1% just in some small way that they contributed to that project, or that design, or whatever it was that deliverable was, The insurance company, not your client, your client's insurance company can decide to subrogate against you. So your client might say, well, don't worry, David, I would never subrogate against you. Well, the reality is your client doesn't necessarily make that decision. If the insurance company has paid on your behalf, the insurance company is going to say, well, I'm really sorry you told your sub that, but we, we are the people who paid this claim. We reserve the right to subrogate against whoever we want. And that could be the sub.

David Terlizzi: 12:54 - 13:08

What an interesting point. You would never think that, but you're right. It's a form of them de-risking when you think as well. I mean, I guess we're a very litigious society. When something goes awry, I'm assuming they just go for anyone at that point. They may look for any opportunity to sue someone. I'm assuming at some point they look at different parties.

Michael Loeters: 13:10 - 13:09

Listen, David, an insurance company, when they make a payout, whether it's a settlement or a court award, they are looking to recover and recoup as much of those expenses as they can.

None: 13:19 - 13:19

100%.

Michael Loeters: 13:20 - 13:21

That's just what insurance companies do.

David Terlizzi: 13:22 - 13:57

And that's fair. It is. And, and, you know, it's funny, we talked about the space. We, um, have a lot of subject matter expert groups and, you know, everyone that deals with environmental site assessments and records of site condition and What's interesting about that is it's, it's, you know, I'm hearing two stories. Here's a prime example where one says, well, I work, I work for a large firm and I'm fine. I'm covered. And, and, you know, another, you know, another opinion was, well, actually I decided to cover myself as well. But what, what opinion with your expertise, what would you assume would be the right pathway for that? Should you assume that you're covered by a larger firm or would you say it'd be more appropriate to consider having your own?

Michael Loeters: 13:58 - 17:45

I would never assume that. And the reason is, is because let me give you, I'll give you a real life scenario that I ran into a few years ago. where the prime, their previous policy, so they, you know, there's sometimes their broker will shop their insurance too. And their policy might move from insurance company A to insurance company B. Well, insurance company A extended coverage automatically to all subs. There wasn't any requirement that they carry their own insurance or anything else. But then They switched to insurance company B and guess what? That policy now reads differently. But nobody within the design, nobody within that engineering firm was really aware of that. So it might've been true at one time, but it wasn't true at another. This is, I know it's easy for me to sit here and say this because of, you know, I see it from a very specific lens. If you are working as a sub to anybody, if you are an independent contractor, in any way, you absolutely need to carry your own insurance coverage. You are an independent contractor. That's probably what your contract says with the prime. They probably go to great lengths to make sure that you look like an independent contractor. And therefore when something goes wrong, every party in that in that lawsuit is going to act like you were an independent contractor independent from them. So if you are an independent contractor, you absolutely need to carry your own insurance. It's kind of part of the cost of being an independent contractor, frankly. And kind of address an earlier question that you had, which is what coverage should I carry? Well, We've been talking primarily at this point about professional liability, but there's also another coverage that's important to consider, which is commercial general liability. So what's the difference? The professional liability is kind of what it sounds. It's an allegation related to your professional services. So you acting as a technician or technologist. However, a lot of things that technicians or technologists do can also have the cause or the effect of somebody getting physically injured or damage to somebody's property. Well, the physical part of it is what's covered under the general liability policy. And so sometimes when we get a statement of claim, the way the lawyers have worded things It's very convoluted because they're not writing the statement of claim for an insurance policy. What they're just trying to do is they're trying to make the allegations as broad as they possibly can, because they don't know where this litigation is going to go. There's lots of discoveries, lots of questions, lots of process that needs to be gone through. Well, a professional liability policy really only covers the financial loss. So what's the financial loss that I have as a result of me relying on your expertise? But the physical part of it isn't covered there. You got to have a general liability policy to cover the physical part of it. Somebody getting physically injured or damaged to somebody's physical property. We always recommend that people carry both because sometimes the circumstances of what happens could be very gray and you don't really want to give an insurance carrier an out to not pay. And frankly, the general liability when people get it quoted through the OACETT portal, it's pretty inexpensive in comparison. So it's not a very expensive add-on. You know, I think it's good peace of mind and it makes sense for what technicians and technologists do.

David Terlizzi: 17:46 - 18:05

I see. So if, if I was a designer per se, designing a rather large elevated decks, whether it's residential, maybe even commercial, there could be financial liability, but let's be honest, if it's elevated, there could be some, some harm as well. You, your suggestion, that's a clear demarcation. You need both. I'm assuming something to that effect.

Michael Loeters: 18:05 - 19:26

Yeah, because you designed it, let's say to get a permit. Okay. Um, so that's fine. So, you know, the permit gets approved and the deck gets built according to the according to the design. Well, we just had a very heavy snowfall, you know, so you get a lot of weight sitting on that deck, let's say, and let's just say the date the deck collapses or some damage happens as a result of the weight. For sure. So there's two things there, right? Well, one is it's going to cost me money to rip that deck out and rebuild it. That's financial. But let's say when that deck collapsed, there were things underneath that deck that got physically damaged. I had patio furniture, I had equipment. Let's say there were people and somebody got physically hurt. Well, all that physical part of it, that's not going to be covered by your professional liability policy. That's what the general liability policy needs to do because they're saying, well, it's not only that uh, I'm going to allege that there was something wrong with your design because it didn't perform the way I'd expected it to. And I got to now incur the cost of ripping this all out and hiring somebody to replace it, rebuild it. But I also got all this physical stuff that, that happened and I want, I want reimbursement for that too.

David Terlizzi: 19:28 - 20:04

Interesting. I mean, it's obvious, but one of those things that maybe, you know, it's funny, Michael, the difference in the general liability and professional, it's true. Most people think they know the difference, but it's interesting that distinction. And thank you for letting our members know that. I think those in that space know that, but like you mentioned the group, that's not too sure that probably needs it. It's a good way of explaining it. Now, you know, on a similar topic, we've heard the thing about the defense costs only. So what does it really mean? And you and I have talked about this, we hear that most claims are defense costs only. And why is that, you know, still such a serious risk?

Michael Loeters: 20:04 - 21:11

Yeah. Yeah, the reality is statistically, and I think 2025 numbers will probably be very similar to 2024 statistics, and that 60% of the claims that we see, the insurer is only paying legal costs to defend our client, the policyholder. Meaning on average, it takes three years because the wheels of justice are very, very slow. Um, by the time you file a statement of defense, you go through a discovery, all the negotiations, all the investigation. You know, oftentimes your lawyer will have to hire another designer to overlook your work, provide a third party independent opinion as to whether you, what you did was right or wrong. Was it reasonable design based upon what the criteria was, et cetera. And listen, designers are very good at what they do. So the reality is 60% of the time, they didn't do anything wrong. Especially certified, especially certified designers.

David Terlizzi: 21:11 - 21:12

Especially certified designers.

Michael Loeters: 21:12 - 22:57

Exactly. So, but the problem is you still have to pay $600 an hour to a lawyer to defend you. And that can get into big dollars very quickly. Like it doesn't take much at $600 an hour. And you think about all the work that needs to be done to, like I said, for a lawyer to review contract and the scope document and all the email correspondence and everything. Just think about how many hours that takes and then to draw up a statement of defense and then prepare you for a discovery where you're going to sit in front of a panel of lawyers who are going to grill you for an entire afternoon about everything you did and all the thought processes and where did you come up with this information and all that kind of stuff. You're on the clock the entire time your lawyer is sitting there next to you while you're going through this. Like I said, you get into excess of $10,000 very, very quickly. And that's why a lot of people say, well, you know, but I'm good at what I do and I don't make mistakes and I have very good relationships with my clients or whatever. I get it. And you know what? You're right. Most of the time you didn't do anything wrong, but it's a free world. Anybody can sue you. Um, they have to prove it. The unfortunate thing is you still have to defend yourself and defending yourself is expensive. And these policies, most of what they do most of the time is there is no settlement. There is no court award. It never makes it to court. Most of the time, what the policy is doing is hiring a lawyer to take you through that, on average, three-year journey to get everybody involved in the lawsuit to shake their head and go, yep, you're right. You had nothing, you didn't do anything wrong. You had nothing to do with this.

David Terlizzi: 22:57 - 23:15

You can exit. I'm, I'm already getting hives of thinking of myself locked in a room for hours with a bunch of lawyers, but it's a joke. We love what we love lawyers at OACETT, but I, I see what you mean. And, um, and it is unfortunate, right? Because you could have done nothing wrong to be frank, but you're going through this long process and it's so expensive and laborious. So I get it.

Michael Loeters: 23:16 - 23:22

Um, but you know, it's fine. Didn't do anything. Your members didn't do anything wrong, David. That's the thing. Most of the time, your members haven't done anything wrong.

David Terlizzi: 23:23 - 23:49

I would argue there's a financial and stressful aspect to this all. So why not avoid it? In many cases, some good insurance or whatnot. But you know, we, we talk about the formal channels. I mean, but to be honest, if you're giving informal device, I'm sorry, advice, like a, like an email, let's say, heck you're in a meeting or even a quick technical opinion, can that really create liability? Even if there's no contract or scope, are you telling me that could be a thing? Is that, is that a problem?

Michael Loeters: 23:49 - 25:12

A hundred percent. It doesn't have to be written in a scope document. It's not a requirement. As soon as somebody has relied upon your expertise, your knowledge, as a technician or technologist, you have liability. It's as simple as that. And the reason for that is because again, the courts are serious about protecting the public. And the way they protect the public is to ensure that you take full responsibility that when you give advice, Uh, when somebody asks you a question that you're going to ask all the right questions, you're going to uncover everything you need to uncover. And whether it's just verbal or written, that whatever it is that you provide, that person should be able to, especially if you're acting in your capacity as a technician or technologist, they should be able to rely upon the information you provided. And you will be in, again, I keep saying it, but the courts have proven over and over again, the courts will hold you responsible. So, you know, designers, like doctors, like lawyers, like insurance brokers, when we give advice to anybody who's relying upon us as an expert, we have to be very careful in the advice we give because

David Terlizzi: 25:13 - 25:56

They will act on it. Yeah. You know, you're, you're, I mean, it's kind of scary, but it's not, and this is reality. This is life. And in order to, to be that fully certified member, look, as you know, are members of a code of ethics. They write a professional practice exam. So in theory that that is in fact, an important thing, but this insurance might round it up for what they're doing as a profession. So pretty scary stuff. But if you, I guess, use your head and have the right products, I think that that's a nice safeguard towards your professional, what you're doing in your industry. But I mean, the truth is you take a member journey from the first time, you know, they graduate to retirement. At what point in someone's career, Michael, would you say they seriously should consider carrying their own professional liability insurance or general for that case?

Michael Loeters: 25:56 - 27:50

Well, as soon as you start offering advice, as soon as you start talking to people and, uh, as soon as people start relying upon your expertise as a technician or technologist, that's the moment that your liability starts. And, uh, so, you know, you got to make sure that if you're doing it as an, as a, as a sole proprietor, or like I said, maybe you have your own little corporation, you do a little, you know, lots of people do work on the side evenings and weekends. As soon as you start making the decision to do that, insurance is part of the cost of running a business. And as soon as you start working for somebody else, you annually should be doing that query that, does this organization have the right insurance coverage to protect me for what it is that I do? And if the answer is no, They can go get it themselves, but the reality is, David, is that they can get that policy through OACETT to protect the individual technician or technologist to cover them. And the policy can extend to their employer. So we can name their employer and them on the policy. And your members are going to be hard pressed to find as comprehensive and cost effective of a program as you're going to find with OACETT because you're leveraging, obviously economies of scale, you know, you're leveraging an entire 20,000 member membership. Um, so regardless of whether I would say your employer wants to go do their own thing, I would still encourage OACETT members to still get a quote through the OACETT program. You can give it to whoever it is in the organization that's doing the, the, uh, the buying decision. They can compare and contrast. But I think what we've seen in most cases is that the OSIP program is pretty darn competitive.

David Terlizzi: 27:52 - 29:25

It really is. And you know, Michael, sometimes you meet people in your life, you realize, I know why they do this for a living. You're one of those people. So thank you for this. And, you know, Michael, thank you for sharing your insights really into the hidden liability risks OSIP members may be exposed to. I know for me, you've helped me and you've helped us clarify how allegations of negligence can happen. Uh, even in situations where professionals didn't expect any legal exposure. I think that's the key today. You may not expect it. I think you provided practical guidance on how technicians, technologists can protect themselves. And I would ask our listeners to really think about this today. If you're listening to this podcast and take it to consideration. So for listeners, the key takeaway is this, the risk is real and Michael's done a great job of, of, of sort of exposing it, but it's manageable when you understand your exposure and take the right steps to protect yourself. And to learn more about how to protect yourself, contact ProLink. Their number is 1-800-663-6828. And you can email them by the way at designers at ProLink dot insure. That's designers at ProLink dot I-N-S-U-R-E. Better yet, visit the portal. If you're, if you're a member, go to the OACETT portal, go under the membership privileges and under insurance programs, you'll see a professional liability link. Click that link and you should, you'll have access to the ProLink website and you can get a quote there. So Michael, thank you again for joining us on Tech Takes and follow our listeners. Until next time, bye for now. And one last thing, we will be putting a link to the ProLink website on this podcast on the website. So everyone enjoy the rest of your day and until we meet again, bye.