TECH TAKES
TECH TAKES
Inside the Minds of the Next Generation: Flexibility, Purpose, and Mental Well-being
In this episode of Tech Takes, guest host Mladen Ivankovic explores how the next generation is reshaping ideas around work, education, and success.
Psychologist Dr. Andrew Wong and David Terlizzi, Director of Member Engagement at OACETT, join the conversation to discuss why flexibility, purpose, and mental well-being are taking priority over traditional career paths.
From the influence of social media to the rise of hybrid work and passion-driven careers, learn how young professionals are redefining success—and what organizations can do to better support their evolving values.
Don’t miss this engaging discussion on the future of work and the mindset shaping it.
Have a topic you’d like to discuss or comments about the episode? Reach us at techtakes@oacett.org.
Tech Takes Ep.15
Inside the Minds of the Next Generation:
Flexibility, Purpose, and Mental Well-Being
David Terlizzi: 00:00 - 00:24
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Mladen Ivankovic: 00:35 - 02:13
Hello everyone, and welcome to Tech Takes. I'm Milan Ivankovic, your guest host for today's episode, Inside the Minds of the Next Generation, where we'll be taking a closer look at a question that's on many of your minds. Why are so many young people thinking differently about work, education, and their future? Or are they? Rather than following traditional paths, many young people are prioritizing flexibility, purpose, and mental well-being over stability or convention. They're choosing passion projects, side hustles, and even non-linear career paths over corporate ladders. But what's driving this change? And how can organizations better understand and support these evolving priorities? For professional bodies like OACETT, which plays a crucial role in shaping the future of engineering and applied science technicians and technologists, understanding what motivates young people isn't just interesting, it's essential. It holds the key to attracting, engaging, and supporting the next generation of OACETT members. Joining us today to help us unpack how young people think is psychologist Dr. Andrew Wong. Dr. Wong is a registered clinical, school, and rehabilitation psychologist with 14 years of experience providing therapy and assessments, and OACETT Director of Member Engagement, Services, and Government Relations, David Terlizzi. Andrew, David, we're thrilled to have you both on Tech Takes. David, you've worn the host hat before, but it's awesome to have you in the guest seat this time. Absolute pleasure to be here today.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 02:14- 02:16
Thank you very much, Molad and glad to be here as well.
Mladen Ivankovic: 02:17- 02:29
There's a ton to unpack and even more to say, so let's jump right in. So, Andrew, young people today seem to think and act differently than generations past. What's behind this potential shift?
Dr. Andrew Wong: 02:30- 04:22
I think that's a very interesting question. I think in terms of cultural and generation shifts, it's always been there. So when we think about, when we go through the decades of, you know, the 1900s, you know, you talk about industrialization, you talk about the tech boom, there's always been a shift, especially when, you know, there's different technologies, cultures coming together. And so priorities may have changed, but this is, I think, another shift that we're into right now, especially post-COVID, when we are seeing individuals wanting more in terms of what they're looking for a career, what they're looking for in terms of things for their family, even for themselves. So I do think priorities have changed in terms of opportunities and options that students and young adults have nowadays, you know, especially with the tech boom and social media changes, and people are looking for more opportunities than they have ever had before. So information travels so quickly nowadays as well with social media. And so when we talk about seeing different opportunities out there, people trying to capture the moment, you see the next trend, the next fad, and so they go for it. It's not that people are being slow about making changes, they are going after opportunities. And sometimes we see people not just seeking one opportunity, but perhaps multiple opportunities at the same time. And this is very different, I think, from before when people think, okay, I'll take this particular job and it's going to be stable. I'm going to do this for 25, 30, 35 years. and I'm going to be fine. I'm going to be set. Whereas now I think people are wanting more because of what they're seeing in social media and society.
David Terlizzi: 04:24- 05:07
David? Well, I think, um, I think Andrew said it best, but what I'll add to that is, so Andrew gave sort of, I think, a real practical and theoretical approach to things. And, you know, uh, on the ground floor, when, when for OACETT for myself, when we're dealing with student members and actual, you know, young, young adults or young professionals, and I think he hit the nail on the head. It's, it's weird there. there was a stabilization of wants and needs. And I think now there's just more in the basket of what I think younger adults are looking for. And we will probably unpack as to why that's happening. And we see it on the ground floor with our membership too. And I think we'll talk about it. It used to be that steady paycheck and that sort of stability where we're saying, well, the world's changed. And I think to attract sort of a younger audience, we have to just add more to whatever we're doing.
Mladen Ivankovic: 05:08- 05:17
And do either of you believe that with the growth of social media, the role models and influences that they're seeing every single day is impacting this change?
Dr. Andrew Wong: 05:18- 05:54
Yeah, I think, you know, influencers are called influencers for a reason, right? You know, they are trying to influence trends and patterns. And so I think when you know, they present a very encouraging message with some charm, with some wit. It's very appealing, right? So you have individuals seeing these social media messages, and like I said before, they want a piece of that pie. It's like, oh, that's a great idea. Let's jump into it, right? And so, especially with young people, if they have the time, the energy, many of them will venture into it and they want to try.
Mladen Ivankovic: 05:56- 06:27
Yeah, and I have to agree. I think a lot of people are seeing the entrepreneurial side, the ability to work for themselves, make videos, make content, and it's something that a lot of people are engaging with. It's not how it was back in the day when people used to see astronauts on the TV, and that's what they aim to be. Nowadays, they're seeing, oh, here's an influencer on social media. Let me get there. How do I, how do I make video content and how do I get people interested in, in, in watching my videos? So.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 06:27- 06:45
And it's actually a very interesting point, Maladin, that you bring up because even with the platforms that are out there now, everybody can create content, right? You might have to spend an hour, a couple of hours to play around with an app, but you can get content out there really quickly nowadays. I agree. Everything's at our fingertips.
David Terlizzi: 06:46 - 07:46
Yeah. And what I would add to that is to Andrew's point is, you know, you think about it, even from a company perspective, say 50 years ago, there was a controlled message and you're a big engineer from one, there's one controlled message. Everyone sees that one message. Now with social media, not only will the company, but employees there can actually tell a curated story quite easily. I mean, to be frank, you can be at a certain event with an iPhone and tell that curated story. And the question then is, I'm a young adult, I'm really successful, I'm not telling that story with an iPhone at an event within two minutes with software and it goes to multiples of people and you're absorbing that content. Now this is the pOACETTive side of social media. We're absorbing that. And what does that do? That actually exponentially tells the story. And it's so fast and I would say cheap, maybe and easy to do. I think that's a pOACETTive aspect of the social media of what's going on. I do think it's a bit of a, like a spotlight and a funhouse mirror at times, depending on what you do. But I think it's pretty cool what you can do to sort of promote yourself as a part of branding or even your, your sort of company, so to speak.
Mladen Ivankovic: 07:47 - 07:56
And with that self-branding and marketing, do either of you feel that the value systems have really changed across generations or are young adults just responding to a different world?
Dr. Andrew Wong: 07:57 - 09:43
I like what you said there, Malad, young adults responding to a different world. What David said before, you can really get your message out there so fast now. And I think that entrepreneurial spirit is probably greater than ever before. You know, this idea that, hey, I can do this too. Which is a really pOACETTive message, actually. And I think, you know, as sort of the network of people, we influence each other, the more people we follow. You know, I think it's a really ideal spirit that's out there. At the same time, though, I do think that That idea of being influenced early and before people are truly ready to take that next step can also be another factor because in terms of critical thinking skills, young people, we know that in terms of brain science, what we call executive functioning, that ability for people to organize, to initiate, to really plan and organize well for Young women, it doesn't develop until 18, 19 years old, like fully develop. And for young men, it doesn't develop until 21, 22. So it's a really important developmental issue in the sense that we really have to think critically of how we are promoting ourselves. Right? And are we taking the right steps to brand or to be an entrepreneur? Because if we're not organized well, if we think, hey, we're just going to jump right in with two feet without really organizing, that can also bring a whole host of issues too.
Mladen Ivankovic: 09:44 - 09:49
Yeah, those organization skills, I have to say, I think I'm still developing even at this age, so.
David Terlizzi: 09:50 - 11:28
Well, I think, Milad, and you mentioned, it's a great question, have value systems really changed, right? Or are young adults just responding to a different world? And I really would say I think it's a bit of both. I think that young people, when you think about it, you know, I'm in a perfect case scenario, so I'm in my mid-50s, and I have a 16-year-old whose eyes are constantly rolling when I talk, so I have this good sort of idea of what's going on in interactions. I do think, I don't think young people in Save Values of Change really chose this world when you think of what's happening. So whether it's, you know, let's be honest, there's questionable affordability, you know, maybe some climate issues, not to mention AI disrupting, you know, jobs before they've even chosen a career. I think two more seasoned generations, I'll use that word. I think it might seem like today's youth are under a whole new value system, but I would say millennials or Gen Z or whoever, just sort of, you know, I think they're just, I think they've added to what they want. So for instance, there's things like purpose, work-life balance. I know we've interviewed lately for some pOACETTions and yeah, for me myself, being my mid-50s, I would have never, ever said I want work-life balance in my job in my 20s. And to be frank, it's like, so when you say values have changed, I do think it's changed to some degree. I think there's some fundamentals that are there. When we do our outreach, we see it, but that's something we see. And I want to mention that. So I do think young adults are more responding to rapid change, right? So, and I think it's, you know, what Andrew was saying, digital connectivity, economic uncertainty, and some global issues, and it kind of expresses their values. And I see that work. what they say in interviews, what their wants and needs have changed. So I think their value systems have changed, but I think they're just accommodating for a world they didn't ask for, if that makes sense. I'm not sure.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 11:29 - 12:33
I think that's a really good point. Even when we talk about the world that we didn't ask for, think about the pandemic, right? Think of COVID and how that changed all companies of how we operate, right? There was a boom in, you know, online work, right? So people wanted to stay home and got a flavor, you know, how nice it is to be at home. Don't have to commute. This is great, you know? And then, When the pandemic subsided and companies were expecting people to go back to work, this is where people started saying, well, can you give us a few days at home? Instead of coming into the office every day, does that mean we get paid less or the same pay or how does this all work? So in terms of the values, I think COVID played a big role in terms of what people are looking for when it comes to work-life balance, right? So yeah, I even get that nowadays, you know, when all our clients are, let's say, online for a day, I'm fine with therapists staying at home. I don't need them to come in. And that's sort of seen as a perk.
David Terlizzi: 12:34 - 13:16
Yeah, I just want to add to that. What a great point, because you think of hybrid work environment. Pre-COVID, no one would dare to ask for a hybrid. You know, now it's a perk in job descriptions and people are out really saying, do you have hybrid? If you don't have hybrid, I may not consider this role. Unthinkable, even five, six years ago. And I think that you see that with a lot of, you know, we have a lot of corporate partners, engineering firms. It's a perk now. And if I challenge everyone here, I mean, five years ago, what, really? No one thought about it. So the world, I think in that case, you see how they're responding to a change, as Andrew mentioned, to an environment like a disease, a virus that came out and it's just changed everything. I think it's pretty incredible. That's what I meant by people want the core values of change, plus, plus, plus. There's other things that young adults are looking for.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 13:16 - 13:41
Well, even think about this. You were saying that the past generation, before COVID, nobody expected to even ask for hybrid work. But those, let's say, who are going through college or university post-secondary during COVID, after that, they came into the work world where, wow, you know what? My expectation is hybrid or not just hybrid. I just want to work from home, right? I can just be as effective at home. Can you give me that?
David Terlizzi: 13:42 - 14:16
Yeah, and the last thing I want to add is that, you know, when you say as things change 100%, I do think that loyalty was expected. I know when I was growing up, it was expected, loyalty. And I don't think it's expected anymore with the younger adults. It's sort of, and it's not, I don't think it's because they're selfish or entitled. It just means, I think they're putting a premium on other things that we didn't want before. And I think that's some of the value changes that you're seeing. You know, I'd always said as an organization, and you know, Milad, and we talk about as part of the Young Professionals Committee, we have to sort of take that into consideration. We're looking at new sort of initiatives to sort of bring up younger adults into the fold, so to speak.
Mladen Ivankovic: 14:17 - 15:43
I think you both hit the nail on the head. With millennials now, you're hitting that early 40s, early 30s age. So a lot of them are in that kind of sweet spot where now with hybrid work, with work from home, they're able to accommodate their lives a little bit easier. They're in that home ownership stage, they're in that family building stage, where now, during our breaks, you can go and do a load of laundry, you can go and do a load of dishes, you can take care of a baby at home, right? It's, like you mentioned, the work-life balance piece that's really helping that generation shift its mindset and really progressing, I think, society in the way that work is viewed and the ability to take care of things that you need to take care of in a broader and I'd say a much better state than what it was in the past, right? Not everything has to stay in the older mindset of, I have to go to work, I have to be there right at this time, clock out at this time, and that's all that I take care of. No, now I can take care of it even in the evening if work is there, if something needs to be done, you're on top of everything. And as long as the way that I feel, as long as everything is moving forward and being taken care of, I don't care if it's done in the morning. I don't care if it's done at midnight, as long as it's done.
David Terlizzi: 15:44 - 15:52
Sorry, but I'm sorry, Andrew, but I'm getting a mental image of M'laden doing, you know, running an important report while doing his laundry. But that's all good.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 15:53 - 15:59
But to M'laden's point, hey, if he's effective at it and he can get it done, then I'm going to do laundry while I'm working on the report.
David Terlizzi: 16:00 - 16:27
I hate to say this by dint of my role, I will say it by bringing everything back to membership growth and retention. I do want to say this as an organization that, you know, I know it sounds cheesy, but it's true. And I think that if we're still, and Milan and I always talk about, if it's still mapping for the future with yesterday's compass, I think we're going to miss the next wave of sort of membership. And that's, you know, that was the whole point of creating this Young Professionals Committee is trying to figure out, okay, because it is different. It just is different. I think there's some core things, but yeah. Well, that's what I have to say about that.
Mladen Ivankovic: 16:28 - 16:37
And with the shift of that entrepreneurial mindset, how do you feel the rise of social media and shifting mindsets impacted decision-making in education and careers?
Dr. Andrew Wong: 16:37 - 18:02
Yeah, so as I mentioned before, even with the decision-making skills and the critical thinking piece, You know, it's being able to absorb all the information that we have nowadays and to make sense of it and process it before we make a decision that may impact our future. But as we said before, information comes so quickly to us, right? And for young people, when we think of even teenagers going into young adults, you know, we do tend to be a little bit more impulsive with our decision making, right? So, you know, at the start of our careers, I think it's exciting. There's a lot to be had, a lot of opportunities that we can strive towards. And for many young people, you know, at that particular stage of their lives. There's no children yet, there's no families. So, you know what, I can take all that energy and go for it. And I think even with the rise of, let's say, you know, consumerism and social media, it really gives people this sort of idea that, hey, I can have more. You know, let's get more, let's go for more. Look at that person who's on social media showing me all these things that they may have. And it looks wonderful, right? So at this point in my life, that young adulthood, let's say 20 to 22 years old, I'm just going to go for it, right? What do I have to lose?
David Terlizzi: 18:03 - 20:30
Yeah, what I'll add to that is I think social media has sort of, I would say it's widened horizons. What I mean by that is you think young people now have a front row seat to industries, causes, sort of lifestyles they'd never really know existed, right? And that's the beauty of social media. In many cases, you're not really choosing a job when you think about it. You're sort of choosing a personal brand, I would say, sort of that narrative. And I notice that we see it firsthand, right? I'm thinking, you know, top of my head, some members I see that are LinkedIn, and they got some amazing photos of themselves and curated sort of storylines of what they're doing. Now, let's just go back. a generation, maybe, or two. Now, if we had to do something like that, I'd have to hire a professional photographer, you know, write something to be printed. It would be a long, arduous process. Now you're creating this contact with social media to tell your story of your success. So it's something that's pretty cool. And I think it varies, obviously, for LinkedIn as a professional. As you know, I'm a Latin, as a professional association, LinkedIn really is the Holy Grail. But whether it's TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, it's sort of, I guess, it's democratized storytelling of your career, which you didn't have that in the past. So you get to see real-time journeys. These are real-time journeys and you control that destiny. So it's kind of a cool tool I think they have for social media for your career. I just want to mention one thing though. It's that I want to say one thing. I think It kind of breaks down, this new social media breaks down a bias that you might see in education. So as you know, I think at OSA we're always working with our college partners to sort of break the, sort of the hierarchy of universities, colleges and skilled trades, all very important. And I think, you know, so it's not that one is better than the other. It's just that the story trying to tell is that, you know, it's just a different way of doing things. And you might, to be frank, you might have different inputs, different necessities, different requirements for universities, colleges, or skilled trades, but with social media, Colleges are able to tell that story. Students are able to tell that story. Now, I think we know, and Andrew and I talked about this, the most powerful person in your life is your parents. They really will kind of steer, in many cases, your future. But the great thing is social media now breaks that down. So I can tell my story. You know, I think of now some students I know from Centennial College, beautiful storylines about their careers. And I can look at that and think, I think I want to be that. And I think that's pretty cool. So I think that's how social media has sort of curated and provided those opportunities.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 20:31 - 21:20
I think that storytelling piece is vital. There's so many stories out there, and in the past, you wouldn't have heard or seen everybody's story. So as, let's say, our parents were influencing us to do something, they knew a certain path. And their path was like, okay, we're going to map this out for you. Nowadays though, with everybody's storytelling out there, you can say, oh, that person's story is a little bit like mine. So even though I may be a little bit lost right now, if I follow that person's story, perhaps I will get there as well. Or, you know, conversely, that other person's story is really cool, and I can follow all these people's maps. not just the people who are closest to me, my parents. Sure, they're great influences, but we don't have to follow their map anymore.
Mladen Ivankovic: 21:21 - 21:25
And I think the most amazing thing with LinkedIn is the personal brand and marketing approach, right?
David Terlizzi: 21:26 - 21:26
It is.
Mladen Ivankovic: 21:27 - 23:42
You have the ability to have organic outreach on LinkedIn compared to something like Instagram. and where you have people from many different industries able to see what you're doing, your posts, how you're interacting with other people, and it's a beautiful thing. I know for myself, like you mentioned, pathways from an older generation, it's something that the younger generation could follow in the past, but now they have so many other avenues. I know for myself, I and my parents came here as refugees, right? And for us, I grew up in a household where you didn't have those pathways. My parents didn't understand or know the direct pathways through education to get to a certain goal. But one thing that they did have for me was they showed support. No matter what I did, as long as I was working towards something, as long as I was trying to get there, they'll be behind me and they'll be supporting me to get to that path. So it's really a nice way to kind of showcase your hard work. And I think that's one thing that I get scared of with Generation Z, as I'll call it, is, like you mentioned, there's such a lavish lifestyle that they see from these influencers. And some of it is not true. They're showcasing a lifestyle that they can't actually live. And then they get so caught up with it that I get worried that they're not going to follow the proper education steps that they need to, or they overlook that thinking that, oh, I can get there too. I don't need school. I don't need to do all these things. I'll be an influencer online and make a million bucks a year. really that's a 1% kind of deal. And that's even a 1% in influencers. So it's really a showcase of working hard, getting to those steps, and being able to make something of yourself and working hard on that. And I think that's something that the young generation tries to showcase nowadays through LinkedIn. is I'm working hard, I'm working towards these goals, and hopefully that'll showcase something in the future as well, my progression and where I want to be, not just where I am.
David Terlizzi: 23:43 - 24:15
Yeah. And I just want to say one last thing. I don't, so I'm not going to discount parents, obviously, and I'm not going to discount guidance counselors. I know those that we work with guidance counselors all the time. I'm just saying social media is given another outlet that sort of may validate your decision, right? So if you see a successful, you know, if she's someone's really successful and, and she's an environmental technologist, it may validate your decision to go in that field or even go to college. I think it's a. I think it's a net pOACETTive, and I hear what you're saying, Mladen, but I think social media has given another avenue to maybe inform your decision.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 24:15 - 25:08
Well, I think that's where it goes back to what I said before about critical thinking, right? You have to take a look at everything with a critical eye. Even the most successful influencers, they're not going to tell you necessarily that it took them, you know, a hundred hours a week to create the content that they did, but perhaps it did, right? It just doesn't look that way. But I, you know, I've read articles and seen videos where, you know, very honest content creators say that they did put a lot of work into it. There might be weeks where they didn't sleep very much in order to put out the content that they put out. So I think it's really important to not discount hard work and to think about the things that we see with a critical eye. Is this actually something that is achievable or is this sort of a falsified livelihood of somebody?
Mladen Ivankovic: 25:09 - 25:16.
Yeah, that's a good point. And what do you think are the challenges young adults face in building these independent lives and careers in today's world?
Dr. Andrew Wong: 25:17 - 26:00
Yeah, I think for today's generation, I hear this a lot in my office about work-life balance, right? The importance of work-life balance for young people. They still, you know, they want a life where they can enjoy the things that they find as hobbies, interests. They want to spend time with friends and family. And at the same time, you know, have a good job, whether that means it's a good paying job or one that gives them good hours to still enjoy all those things. So I think work-life balance is something that I hear all the time. And, you know, at the same time, wanting to be remunerated, you know, with that in mind.
Mladen Ivankovic: 26:01 - 26:09
Okay, David, let's chime you in here. Has our collective sense of resilience changed? Are young people more adaptable or more fragile in the face of uncertainty?
David Terlizzi: 26:09 - 28:18
Well, as I said before, I'm a parent and I have a 16-year-old son, so I would say I have a perfect specimen from a clinical perspective to be sort of seeing what I see, to give an opinion. But I do think, and Andrew, I've talked about this before, I think resilience looks different today. I'm going to say that What I've noticed is that I don't think people tough things out silently anymore. I think that, you know, where you're sort of silent in the rain, sort of being verbose, it's about saying, I think, in many cases that, hey, this storm sucks, but I'm building a raft, so to speak. I think young people It's weird. I think they're more adaptable in ways that make Gen X, might make my brain short circuit. But the point is they're kind of switching. I mean, think about it. They're switching careers like Playlist. I mean, they're learning skills on YouTube at 2 a.m. I mean, they're kind of doing things differently, maybe in terms of resiliency. We never did. And I don't think it's fragile. So I don't think you know, this newer generation's fragile. I think they're just more open about burnout, things like more open about things. And I think about boundaries, you know, in a weird way, I think that's kind of wisdom. It's not weakness. So, you know, I know I used to wear burnout like a badge. It was a thing, right? Remember, we work 60 hours, we're proud of being that idiot that works 60 hours and while everyone's enjoying life, but The point is, you know, even my son, you can see it. It's like, well, then why not design a system where you don't burn out in the first place? Now, the only caveat there is, I mean, not to get too philosophical here, gentlemen, but the point is we are in a bit of a capitalist society where it's about being successful. And one may argue at times you do have to work hard. I do have to, I have a bit of a concern there, but for the most part, you know, I'll tell you something, a true story. We're at a particular college and there's an international student there. And she was saying how, you know, and this might be just a particular demographic to that, but how she had two jobs and she's filling her, finishing her, her sort of diploma. Yeah, I can't do that. I fully admit it. So, You know, so we have to question sometimes about biases, but, you know, Andrew and I, he can speak to it better. He's the expert. There are maybe some question marks moving forward about resiliency, but I'll sort of have you.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 28:18 - 29:52
No, I agree, David. I think young people and resilience, it's come a long way from what we used to think about resilience. You know, at the hockey rink, even nowadays from time to time, you get a parent saying, you know, try harder, you know, don't be so lazy, get up again. So my beef with that oftentimes is, you know, how do we know that the child's not trying their hardest already, right? So it's this idea that while the child might be sitting there going, well, I'm trying my hardest, you're saying I'm not, so what am I supposed to do, right? And I think that's sort of like the old school idea of resilience, you know, pick yourself up and go again. What I've noticed that's been really, really pOACETTive, especially at the college level, I would say colleges nowadays give probably some of the best accommodations for students who are having trouble in school, whether it's because of a learning disability, whether it's because there's mental health issues, and so on. So colleges are so accommodating and that to me actually is a sign of building resilience. Nobody is necessarily born resilient. You have to learn it. You have to be guided and coached. And if you have that really pOACETTive role model, whether it's a teacher, a coach, a parent, to guide you and say, hey, it's okay, come ask for help. That actually fosters resilience because now the student is saying, oh, I can go to that person for help. I don't have to do this by myself. And if I can learn from that person so that the next time I can problem-solve through this and I've learned how to problem-solve, that's resilience. Well said.
Mladen Ivankovic: 29:52 - 31:10
Yep. And with, with a lot of resilience, what I'm, what I'm noticing is a lot of self-reflection has to be done, right? You have to understand yourself and your own limitations. And what I've noticed, let's say, let's say in my own situation, I work full time, made it into management. I have a team that I have to look after. Right. And now on top of that, I'm continuing my education in the evenings. I'm pushing boundaries and taking on different stress levels. But I think, as you mentioned, Andrew, once you go through these trials and tribulations, it makes you a stronger person as you get through the other side. But the thing is, you also have to know when you need a little bit of a reset or break. That ability to take a step back and breathe for a second, right? You don't want to be the one that, like you said, David, you're working 60 hours a week, you're wearing that as a badge, and then you find out a year or two later you're having a heart attack or heart palpitations, some kind of health condition driven by all that hard work and that stress that you're putting on yourself. So, I'd love to hear what you both have to say about this. How has the pursuit of career happiness changed? Are money and recognition still key motivators, or has purpose taken the lead?
Dr. Andrew Wong: 31:12 - 32:54
I think that's a very loaded question. It's a great question, actually. And I think everybody's going to have their own value system. I think purpose, money, recognition, all three of them will always be there. It's how much a person values each of those. And how important are each of those? So if you sort of look at a Venn diagram, for example, you know, how large is each of those pies? And how important is to each person? I do see, though, in my office, purpose becoming more and more important. So this idea of, you know, how do I fit into this community, whether it's, you know, if you're someone in HVAC, and let's say you are working for yourself, you still want to be a part of that HVAC community, and how am I going to be a part of it? At the same time, if you're working for a company, how am I being valued in terms of being here? So on various occasions, we'll have people in our office going, well, I get paid well, but I'm not happy. I get paid well, but I'm not happy. And so what is that all about? And a lot of the time it comes down to purpose. Purpose and recognition. How am I being recognized in this company? Do they see me as valuable? Or am I just another cog in the wheel to help them make money? And if that's the case, why am I doing it? I can be going somewhere else where I'm better valued. And I think this is where OACETT can be really pOACETTive here because it's creating that community for young people across various domains in terms of work and being valued and recognized in the work that they do.
David Terlizzi: 32:55 - 34:36
You know, when you ask that question, I had a feeling a psychologist would say it's a loaded question, but fair to you because it is actually, right? It's a really loaded question. I just want to add that I think that, you know, Andrew mentioned purpose. You hit the nail on the head. I think it's kind of pulled into the driver's passenger seat, but money recognition we find is still sort of driving at the heart of it. You've got the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I think that will always matter. But I think meaning has gained currency. We see that. We see that now with some of our young professionals and what they do. They want to be known for something other than the paycheck. So I think that's changed. And, you know, we talk about that a lot and about what sort of things we should do for young professionals moving forward. So I think the career ladder has become more of sort of like a jungle gym. You think about it depends on which ways you want to go. So, as I said before, I've been doing this for about eight years, and what I've noticed with students and young professionals, I've always said A plus B equals C, so money plus recognition. But it's really A plus B plus D plus E. There's so many things now. And I'll tell you one thing, though. We see this in our college outreach. So we do a ton of college outreach, as you can imagine. You know, students ask us two questions all the time. Initially, and that's what we find that's changing, initially, you know, will this certification make me more money? Hence why we do so much work on salary service. Will it get me a good job? So, and you think about it, it's like an inverted funnel, right? So at the tip of it, the small diameter, that's what people care about. It seems to me when they're young, like, yeah, I want to make that, get that first job. But I find myself, something changes as you progress along. To Andrew's point now, it's like, okay, so I'm making that six figures, but That kind of sucks right now. I want to change things. So I think that's to me what's changed with sort of younger adults, if that makes sense.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 34:36 - 35:51
The way I conceptualize it, David, actually, is very, very interesting points you bring up. I know you talked about the funnel. I sort of see it as buckets, too. So you have recognition, money, and purpose. Three buckets. And I think everybody strives to fill those buckets. So let's say you reach the six-figure mark and that was your expectation. Okay, your money pot, the bucket is filled, right? Now, maybe perhaps purpose and recognition, maybe they're only partially filled right now. So then you start to strive towards wanting the recognition or to fulfill the purpose. And so now you're trying to fill those buckets up. And as David was talking about that, I was thinking, let's go back to social media for a second, because, you know, let's say somebody makes a good salary, but then they say, hey, why don't I try to get on social media? Right? Why is that? Right? To make money on social media, it takes a long time and a lot of work. And there's no promise that there will be extra funds coming in from social media. But for some people it's, you know what? Perhaps I want some of the recognition of the work I'm doing. So let's show people the work I'm doing. Right? Salary's great. Now I want recognition or I want purpose. So I think we're constantly striving to fill those buckets.
David Terlizzi: 35:52 - 35:54
So Mladen, and that's the answer I think I wish I said.
Mladen Ivankovic: 35:56 - 37:31
I think you both made really good points. And Andrew, one thing that you mentioned, it's very opinion-based. The pursuit of happiness for everyone is different. It's just like the movie with Will Smith, right? The pursuit of happiness, he grew up or he had his wife and his son in a neighborhood that was very harsh. And the only thing that he wanted to do at the end of the day was to provide a good life for his son. And he worked hard. He made sure that he took the steps that he had to. He had to at one point sleep in a subway just to be able to get to that point where he's able to make an interview and get the dream job of of his entire career, his whole point of being able to get to that point of providing for a son, and he outworked everyone in the room. But that's just one case, right? If working for a not-for-profit where you don't get paid, right, but you're providing some sort of impact in the world, if that's your jam, go for it, right? Your career does not have to be just based off of money. If you have that self-gratification of sitting there and saying, I provide an impact today, this is what makes me happy. Or if you want to provide a great life for your family, whatever you're looking at for that. For me, the way that I look at it is I'm rich because I have my wife, I have my dog, and we're looking to grow our family. And that's something that I find important for myself.
David Terlizzi: 37:32 - 37:42
Well, I just want to say I saw that movie and I saw that scene, and I'm not nice enough to sort of hire someone if they showed up without a shirt, but I'm just being honest when I say that, so I digress, but yes.
Mladen Ivankovic: 37:43 - 38:15
Yeah, and also with that pursuit, one thing that I personally don't like is getting to that point where all of a sudden people are getting fourth place trophies, tenth place trophies, and so many competitions that Really, they shouldn't be. And the way that I look at it is that young people should be making the mistakes, making those failures, and then they're learning from it, and they're pursuing something greater. And with that, what role does instant gratification play in how young people set goals and measure success?
Dr. Andrew Wong: 38:17 - 39:57
Instant gratification, delay of gratification, you know, I think that particular concept has changed over time. I think we live in such a fast-paced society nowadays and, you know, albeit a consumerism society, I think so many people want things quickly. And I do think that value of being patient, working hard, and knowing that, hey, if I want to be recognized, if I want the money, that will come if I do a really good job. Oftentimes, if I'm speaking to some older high school students or young adults who are trying to find their way, they'll jump to, you know, I want the A+, I want the six figure salary, now, now, now. but we've skipped steps A to C, right? We have to get a job first, and then at the job or at school, you know, we need to work at it, right? And if we do a good job in those areas, then the cherry on top will come, right? But we have to do a good job and work hard at it, show the people that we are valuable in their company. And so that idea of instant gratification, yeah, I want it now, you know, we live in that social media world where, oh, well, look what that person has, I want it. We have to remember, it takes time, right? And again, critical thinking. Did that person just all of a sudden, you know, overnight become a millionaire and was able to buy that car or that watch or whatever it is? We have to think about that a little bit more.
Mladen Ivankovic: 39:58 - 41:15
Yeah, you're definitely correct. I think with that instant gratification now we have on-demand services, right? You can get products off of Amazon direct to your door either the same night or the next day. You can go to McDonald's and grab a meal at any time of the day. So that instant gratification that they're getting is so abundant that they're looking for that in other avenues, right? And like you mentioned, for school, what's a great tool that people are using nowadays? AI, chat GPT. They're looking at all of these different avenues to get that instant gratification. I want that 90. So what am I gonna do? Put on a couple prompts in my chat GPT and look, I've got an entire report or all the answers to my assignments. And that to me sometimes is the missing piece. It's that critical thinking. And I think AI as an example is that It's a great tool to be used, but you need to use it correctly. You need to be able to vet what it's giving you, and you also need to use the tool as a prompt and a basis, not as, this is 100% correct.
David Terlizzi: 41:18 - 42:33
So what I'll add to instant gratification is I think something's changed in professions whereby traditionally, we don't have to keep it within the engineering realm, but when you saw success, traditionally, a generation or two, the person was probably in their 50s or someone. They climbed a corporate ladder and, you know, they're in that Porsche, they're having a good time, but they're seasoned professionals because it took X amount of time. I have a sense what's changed is that with new technology, you know, Mark Zuckerberg reached that milestone of billionaire, I think, before he was 30. So I think because there's different forms, that jungle gym analogy, different forms of technology, you know, people who are 25 can be making millions of dollars a year. And, you know, because there's those avenues like social media and certain constructs of AI or programming, So I think the world's changed where you don't have to expend X amount of time in order to make that money and be successful, so it is a weird form of instant gratification because you can be a multi-millionaire under 30 or 25 because those possibilities are there now, like you said, influencers. Now the truth is most influencers make nothing, but boy oh boy are there some that make a lot, and they can be 22 years old, and that never existed before. So I think there's this, everyone loves seeing, I'll put it this way, I think that the saying goes, everyone sees the peak, but no one sees the climb nowadays, and that probably could be a problem we're seeing right now.
Mladen Ivankovic: 42:34 - 43:33
Yeah, and I think nowadays with the way that, like you just mentioned, it used to be a goal that you'd reach when you're 50. This is probably the largest populace in the world of 20-year-olds that are millionaires. this whole notion of getting to that point now when you're close to retirement, it's being completely flipped upside down. And a lot of people are running with that, keeping up with the Joneses, right? I want that Porsche. What am I going to do to get there? How can I get there tomorrow? And they miss that whole piece of what's the journey to get there. And really, at the end of the day, for me, the way that I look at things, It's not just about getting to that goal. It's that whole journey to get there. If I'm working hard and I'm going through my trials and tribulations over all these years, once I get to that goal, it's going to mean a lot more to me than if I got it tomorrow. It's not the same.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 43:34 - 44:06
That's a great point, Mladen, and I think people forget about the journey, right? Think about storytelling. We go back to storytelling. Oftentimes when we look at now people's stories of how they got somewhere, you will tell the story of how you got there. But as we are in that pursuit of happiness or gratification, we forget that everybody has a journey. And in retrospect, I would hope that everybody is able to tell their journey of how they got there, but we need the journey first.
Mladen Ivankovic: 44:07 - 44:14
Yeah. And with that, why is critical thinking more important than ever in this fast changing world? David?
David Terlizzi: 44:15 - 46:57
Oh, okay. Well, I think, well, you mentioned AI, but I think you couple that with sort of misinformation, you know, 10 second TikTok videos. I think critical thinking becomes a bit of a superpower nowadays. And I think We all know the adage, knowledge is power. If that's the case, then I think discernment is probably user manual. And what I mean by that is that critical thinking, I think it kind of lets you separate the signal from the noise. And I think it's one of the most least talked about skill sets for a younger generation. So, I mean, I mean, for OACETT members, I think, and future professionals, I don't think it's just enough to be trained. I think you sort of have to be tuned into it. So questions like, and we probably all agree is, is that the right solution? Is this sustainable? You know, who does it help? Who does it harm? We talked about, these are some critical thinking questions. You know, I just, if I can just, I did mention, I was going to mention Trump. So I'm going to do it now in this podcast, but. But I do want to, about critical thinking, and I remember this was, I was at a College of Ontario event, and Van Jones, who was a CNN commentator at the time, was there. And just hear me out, because it's quite interesting. He was talking about critical thinking. So going back to 2016, if people remember the sort of the Trump-Clinton campaign in 2016, you know, Clinton had all this data backed information. It was pretty intense, actually, backed by science. And, you know, what it said was, stay at Wisconsin and Michigan, you got this, don't worry about it. The data says X, you got this. Now, post-smartum, they realized no one had the critical thinking to say, maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't take these people for granted. So, and of course, as you know, the rest is history. She lost by 1%. And what happened there was they realized, yes, there was a lack of critical thinking in that room because everyone thought, you know what, data says that we don't have to worry about it. And they realized there was no one in the room to ask the important question saying, maybe it's pretty important that we actually shake the hands and go to the doors of the people that mattered, not forget them. And they realized it was a critical thinking issue that no one, everyone thought the same. But this translates to what I think, you know, because engineering technology is about solving problems. And I think that it's not just about following instructions. So anyone can do that, actually. So I think, you know, because our members, you mentioned HVAC, our members, they analyze, interpret, they innovate. So whether it's, as you mentioned, HVAC, sort of troubleshooting a faulty HVAC system, designing more efficient water treatment system, I think it's pretty important that our members understand moving forward, and I think they do for the most part. Even in teaching, critical thinking is so important. And I even think for a profession, I think if you look about trying to get training on that, I think it would do so much for your career to be better at critical thinking. I'll leave it over to Andrew now.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 46:58 - 48:20
Yeah, the phenomenon that you talk about, David, actually, in terms of that election is also something in psychology we call groupthink, right? We all sit in a room and we all agree with each other. And there's not that one individual who sort of thinks outside the box and says, hey, guys, like, what about what about that population? Maybe we should go visit them. And so I don't think it's just critical thinking, I think it's creatively thinking. I think sometimes, you know, it's being able to think outside the box, asking the right questions, even with AI. With AI, I've noticed when I've tried to use it, if you don't ask the right questions, it doesn't actually give you a really good focused answer that you might be looking for. So you have to ask a really relevant and poignant question for it to give you and spit out the answer that will be helpful for you. So as you talk about the membership for OACETT, I think then it's also being able to ask the organization itself, what can we offer? our young people, our potential new members, something that's different, right? Because they're probably looking for something different, right? If you've got several different organizations that are doing the same thing or trying to capture membership, new members will be asking, well, what makes you stand out compared to everybody else?
David Terlizzi: 48:21- 48:59
I did want to mention we have a great continuous professional development program. I'm always here to plug. I will always, anytime I get a chance to plug. I'm there as I should. Thank you, sir. We are looking at sort of a stream of critical thinking courses potentially, because I think you're right. It's pretty, it's well, I hate to say it's passé, but pretty critical. I did want to say something though that, and Mladen knows this because Mladen wrote this, we do have a professional practice exam, which does cover the code of ethics and the rules of professional conduct. The only reason I bring that up is because guess what? Critical thinking plays into that, right? So when you think if you're making the right ethical decision, critical thinking feeds into that. So it's kind of feeds into each other. I just wanted to sort of highlight that point.
Mladen Ivankovic: 49:00 - 50:14
And a great thing that was mentioned is that group thought, right? Being in a group setting and not saying anything, I think that, for me personally, I think that's a mistake. That's something that people shouldn't be scared to voice their opinions and be able to provide insight, which could steer an entire decision on the direction that it was headed. And that's the whole point of these committees, right? The Young Professional Committee, we get together as a group. And I find that sometimes chairing a committee, people get lost in the thought that the chair is the one that makes the final decision. No, it's the entire committee and the group together needs to come to a consensus. We need to be able to have what the problem is, do the critical thinking, have so many different avenues of thought, and then come to a consensus. And many people miss that point. And the chair really is only there to kind of steer the meeting. They're there to make sure that the meeting's progressing. They can provide an opinion, but really at the end of the day, I'm making sure that the meeting's going forward and not just getting caught up, right? Because at the end of the day, time's valuable for everyone.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 50:14 - 50:15
Yep, absolutely.
Mladen Ivankovic: 50:16 - 50:22
Andrew, from a psychological standpoint, what parts of the brain drive motivation, decision making, and personal ambition?
Dr. Andrew Wong: 50:23 - 52:12
So I mentioned this earlier in the podcast. There's a part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex. And that's what makes us as human species a little bit different from the rest. The only other species that has a large prefrontal cortex are actually dolphins. Right, so as humans have evolved, and you can see this in sort of anthropological research, our prefrontal cortex has grown over the millions of years. And so, for us, as I mentioned before, for the male brain, doesn't fully develop until our early 20s. And that's why sometimes you do see a lot of teenage boys doing silly things, things that they haven't thought about in terms of consequences. And that gets them into trouble. And as I mentioned before, the female brain, biologically, doesn't fully develop that prefrontal cortex until they're about 18, 19 years old. In our research, we know that that's the part of the brain that is the slowest to develop, but the most important to develop. It's very interesting, I was at another talk earlier this week that I was giving, and I gave the example of how important the prefrontal cortex is. Because when we think about, for example, car accidents, right? We have airbags now, we have seatbelts, and all of it is actually to keep us back and to protect our heads. That prefrontal cortex is so susceptible to damage because of the way we play sports, vehicles and so on, those who have had brain injuries, and a lot of them will have prefrontal cortex damage, so their ability to inhibit their responses, to think about consequences, to organize their train of thought and actions, is severely impaired.
Mladen Ivankovic: 52:14 - 53:09
And it's funny that you mentioned dolphins. A lot of people that don't realize, but orcas, killer whales, they're a species of dolphin. And I've seen videos of them hunting as a group, communicating with each other, and they're driving their prey into shallow waters. And you see one orca going and start circling, and they're actually creating a dust storm within the water to keep it circled and stuck wherever they want to keep it. And then they start playing with their food. They're some of the only animals that I've ever seen that are playing with their food, and they're enjoying. They think that it's a fun habit for them, right? And that's something that you don't really see with other animals because, like you mentioned, that prefrontal cortex is so developed with dolphins that it's amazing to actually see these animals.
David Terlizzi: 53:10 - 53:16
I'm loving this podcast. Orca hunting patterns was not on my bingo card today, but I'm really liking it. So that's fantastic.
Mladen Ivankovic: 53:17 - 53:23
So moving on that, David, how have ethics and expectations shifted in the workplace because of younger generations?
David Terlizzi: 53:24 - 55:32
I mean, to answer that, I'll probably have to go with some anecdotal information myself and sort of maybe through conversations through some of our membership and many of the companies we deal with. But I will say one thing, though. I think I think today's workforce is sort of calling out the workplace like it's a group chat. So there's a lot of honesty going on when things happen. And I think they're refreshingly demanding, I would say. You know, ethics used to be sort of an HR policy thing, like in a drawer somewhere. And it really was, you know, I think people want to see more accountability. So they want you, for instance, it used to be just about health and safety, right? That's an HR thing. But I think it's different now, whether it's, you know, equity, sustainability, things of that nature, I think it's changed, right? And I would say that, you know, we keep talking about work-life balance, and I think that's a thing where people bring up as an ethical issue. You know, overwork, burnout, poor mental health, you know, they're no longer badges of honor, and people are sort of questioning that through the ethics of a corporation that might drive them to sort of burn themselves out. So I think there's value boundaries now that wasn't there before. And I think that ethical expectations are going beyond the job site. Like I said, if you're on a job site, an infrastructure project, it was maybe just about health and safety. I think they're sort of blurring the lines between sort of personal values and professional roles. So it was like, my job's my job. What's the ethics? Well, it's a little different now. I find that sort of, sort of the personal lives or belief systems are sort of intertwined with ethics. So, you know, whether it's, you know, advocating for accessible design, we talked about that, or calling out sort of greenwashing. I think ethics is sort of, expanding within sort of with companies. And again, I have to say, one of the great things about OACETT is we do sort of a code of ethics and to some extent, our disciplinary process demonstrates sort of a commitment to that. And sort of, so, and all OACETT members sort of make a commitment to adhere to the code of ethics and rules of professional conduct. It's not fluff, right? It's something we can stick to as an association. that add value and it means something, right? It's one of the sort of the important things that we do here at OACETT. So that's what I would say about ethics.
Mladen Ivankovic: 55:33 - 55:35
Andrew, I'm interested to know what your thoughts on this question are.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 55:36 - 56:54
Yeah, no, I think with what David said, I completely agree. I like his point about OACETT having policies in place and they're actively acted upon. It's not something that's, like he said, fluff. I think that that is what has changed in, I would say, maybe the last five to 10 years in terms of our society, because the idea of equality and equity has really come to the forefront in terms of people's awareness. You know, I don't think it's going away anytime soon, even if certain governments are trying to drive it away in terms of, you know, providing equitable workplace. And I think people, when they are unhappy and they see inequities in the workplace, they want change. They want action. So to David's point about accountability, I think that is very important. People want to see action when they bring something up. They don't just want to bring up something and then, you know, for someone to just shove it under the rug and just say, oh yeah, we'll take care of that in like the next six months and a year. People want to see things acted upon now. Right? Otherwise, I think nowadays, again, with companies, organizations, knowing more about equity, striving for equity, they can easily say that that employee can easily say, you know what? I'm out of here. I'm going to go somewhere else that values what I value. Well said.
Mladen Ivankovic: 56:55 - 57:50
And with all these policies inside of workplaces, and I know my HR department probably won't want to hear this, but with policies being there and helping the company in the sense of we provided you with the information and you're supposed to know it, but at the same time, I like the fact that the younger generation seems to be pushing the envelope. They seem to be striving for what they can do within the bounds that they're given. And that's something that I think is needed, especially when you want innovation. And like we mentioned with COVID, who would have thought years ago that you'd be working from home, right? And now people are demanding it. People are expecting that as a benefit from their work. And I don't think it's going to change anytime soon. I think it's here to stay, personally. It's something that should be embraced and adapted towards and not fought against.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 57:51 - 58:33
I would say even in the last month, I have heard from certain people coming to the office saying, you know what, my company is now demanding us to go back five days a week. It's just recently happened with a couple of huge companies in Canada and international companies, in fact. And, you know, I'm hearing, you know, their staff, their employees looking for to work elsewhere. You know, if you can't accommodate me, I'm going to go elsewhere. And in fact, I've heard that perhaps this is by design to decrease a certain workforce. So it's very interesting in terms of how this is sort of a tit for tat kind of strategy nowadays that people can even use, that organizations can use too.
David Terlizzi: 58:34 - 58:46
Yeah, I just want to mention every time I think about COVID, I still think I'm allotted now doing a financial report and doing his laundry, so I can't get out of my head now. I'm sorry, folks, but anyhow. Hey, that's how I keep my clothes clean. Well done, sir.
Mladen Ivankovic: 58:47 - 59:03
Wow. So this has been such an interesting and insightful discussion about young minds. I can't believe we've reached the end of the episode, but before we sign off, I must ask both of you, what practical steps could organizations like OACETT take to better connect with and support the next generation of professionals?
David Terlizzi: 59:04 - 01:02
Well, I'll say that and maybe I'll say a few points and then Mladen, and I think it's a great opportunity for you to highlight as the chair of the Young Professionals Committee, some of the great things we're doing. But I think quickly, I think what I will say is, because this is where sort of the icing on the cake is, I think building more friendly platforms for networking, mentorship and sort of a seamless digital engagement is key 100% for sort of a more young adults for this new generation coming up. And when you think about it, it's sort of like a Discord-style community of gamified learning modules. Now, on the community side, I will say I am very proud to announce that OACETT will be launching the OACETT Links app in a few weeks. And while this platform will initially be launched, as a chapter community, the next phase will be a section for young professionals and a mentoring option. So again, picture LinkedIn with Discord kind of mixed together and it's on an app. And this is something that I think that a younger generation, when you say about supporting the next generation, I think it's things they want to see. I also want to say that, for instance, you look at our new, we just revamped our Ontario Technologist magazine. I think it's a pretty good product actually. But when you think about steps we can do to better connect or support the next generation, I will say this. If you look at the new feature, we have many profiles about young professionals. Mladen, you were profiled at one point, so you can speak to that. But I think when you say supporting, right, the next generation, I think of now in our latest edition, we have President-elect Stephanie Pesheau in it, and it's highlighted in our first new edition of the magazine, you know, among other young professionals. Now look, Stephanie is sort of a up and coming superstar and a natural talent, but I'd like to think her profile in the magazine, sort of publication, the quality of the content play a role in her success, right? So when you say supporting that, I think it does. So I think that members and potential members can look at that and say, Hey, this is a successful, strong woman leading the charge. And, you know, I want to be like that, so to speak. So I think that, that does it. I got a couple more things. Sorry. I'm just here to promote. I want to say one thing about connections though. I find one thing, and this is, everybody knows this in marketing when it comes to growth, and that is the role for the next generation is to build connections. Because when you build those connections, you build relationships. And when you build those relationships, it's what's called affinity. People start liking what you're seeing. Hopefully you can influence them. And the key then is that influence becomes conversion, and that's the big step. And these are some of the things we're doing. I did want to mention one last thing. You talk about how are we helping young people, right? So obviously, Mladen would agree. We think certification is a key. It's just one thing that makes you successful. It's not going to, you know, but we're actually developing, we develop an asynchronous course on ethics and professionalism through with another college. And basically, it's eligible for college credits. Now, why do we do this? You're thinking, well, is it really a big deal? Absolutely, because it's allowing students to sort of get the information they need to write a professional practice exam to sort of jettison their career quicker. So that's another thing we're sort of doing to sort of support younger people. So finally, I'm almost done, I'll let it, my friend, I'm almost done, is I think we have to make events more social and shareable. What I'm saying is, you know, combining say learning with networking, you know, think like a distillery tech tour or something like that. I think I'll say one last thing, if I can say a shout out to the women in technology, They're doing a great job with social mixers, which are great, has been extremely successful. So, and they're a great way to attract young talent, you know, some female talent or men actually. So I think it's, I think it's important. And I think that that are some of the steps we're taking to grow. And part of the young professional committee is to learn more. And I'm not sure if Milan, you want to highlight on some of the other items that you're spearheading.
Mladen Ivankovic: 01:02:47 - 01:04:19
Definitely. And part of what you mentioned, our certification, your success. There it is. OACETT is working really, really highly and towards a brighter future for young generations. And I think all of these marketing tools are going to be able to help generations realize what they're looking for as far as their careers and help OACETT at the end of the day grow. And I know from the Young Professional Committee, we have a couple career webinars coming up. We have one in July and in September. These are targeted towards young professionals that are looking to make a change in their career, help them grow, help them find leadership opportunities. We have a college event that we're lining up. We do have, obviously, this podcast. This was another initiative from the Young Professional Committee. We are looking to showcase a few members on three videos to really show people what's the career path that they chose, how did they get to that point in their career, and showcase opportunities for young professionals. We do also provide the student subsidy and we provide a scholarship for students within OACETT. And potentially, we might be looking at a conference for some young professionals to get them engaged and bring them out to some OACETT events. And Andrew, I'd love to hear your opinion as well, what organizations like OACETT can do and take to better connect with
Dr. Andrew Wong: 01:04:20 - 01:05:15
No, I, both of you, you know, saying that different opportunities and explaining what they are, I think, I think these sound, you know, really, really good. And, you know, I was, I was engaged when you guys were talking about these different opportunities. I do wonder, you know, even with our podcast today, you know, how much we talked about social media. As you guys were talking, I wrote down this point, you know, I wonder if there's any kind of questionnaire or survey, if it hasn't already been done to be put out to the young professionals. in terms of how many of them may want to use social media as a professional platform. Many of them may already have something personally, but how many would want to use it as a professional platform? And depending on the response, perhaps that something can also be supported through, you know, inviting guests in to show people how to make really good content, good videos, highlight the work they're doing, as we're talking about this idea of being recognized for the work that they do.
David Terlizzi: 01:05:17 - 01:05:35
Well, Andrew, there is an opening in our marketing department. If that's something you're sort of, I want to mention that that's actually a fantastic point. We are doing something similar to that for international educated professionals in the fall, but I love that idea. And this is, that's actually a cool idea. So let's add that to the list. So thank you, Andrew. You're welcome.
Dr. Andrew Wong: 01:05:35 - 01:05:37
If I added anything today, that was it.
David Terlizzi: 01:05:37 - 01:05:41
I think you and Mladen added most of it, let's be honest. But yeah, that's.
Mladen Ivankovic: 01:05:43 - 01:07:13
Well, thank you both for such a real, honest, and thought-provoking conversation about the mindset of the next generation. I believe educators, employers, professionals, and associations like OACETT now have valuable insights to better understand the future of work with young adults, how to connect with them, support their evolving needs, align those needs with organizational goals, and ultimately, inspire their pursuit of learning and certification. And to you, our loyal listeners, a big shout out and thank you for tuning in. We do this for you and honestly, we'd love you to do something for us. Spread the word. Got friends, colleagues or other peers who love everything tech? Hearing about innovation or real world solutions and getting the 411 about important professional issues that are on everyone's minds? Invite them to tune in and join the conversation. Also, if you are interested in learning more about today's topic, or if you had a topic you would like us to feature in a future podcast, please email us at techtakesatoset.org. Also, I do want to mention that Andrew has a podcast called Taking Good Care, where two practicing psychologists share real stories, unpacking important topics in psychology, and invite guests with different expertise to offer their insights. you can find Taking Good Care on all major streaming platforms like Spotify, Amazon, Apple, and YouTube. Again, thank you for joining us. Our certification, your success. Until next time, bye for now.