TECH TAKES

Enhancing Ontario's Infrastructure: OACETT's New Municipal Designations

OACETT

In this episode of the Tech Takes, host Louis Savard, C.Tech. explores the new Municipal Infrastructure Designations Program from OACETT. This program aims to improve the quality and value of non-transportation infrastructure in Ontario, focusing on the Municipal Infrastructure Inspector (mii) and Municipal Infrastructure Contract Administrator (mica) designations.

Joined by Claude Gauthier, C.Tech., rcsi, mii, a civil engineering technician from the Region of Peel, and Carol Warner, C.Tech., OACETT's deputy registrar, the discussion covers the importance of these designations for ensuring safe and reliable municipal infrastructure, including major projects like the Region of Peel's Wastewater Expansion.

Learn about the requirements for these designations, their benefits to professionals, and how they boost public confidence in municipal projects.

Learn more about OACETT's Municipal Infrastructure Designations Program  HERE

Have a topic you’d like to discuss or comments about the episode? Reach us at techtakes@oacett.org.

Tech Takes Podcast Ep. 12

David Terlizzi: 00:00.408 - 00:49.151

Tech Takes Podcast is brought to you by Niagara College's Walker Advanced Manufacturing Innovation Center. From day-to-day support in our quality department to long-range new product plans, WAMIC is your competitive advantage. Learn more at ncinnovation.ca slash WAMIC. That's ncinnovation.ca slash W-A-M-I-C. This is Tech Takes, a podcast that explores the many facets of the engineering and applied science profession. It is brought to you by OACETT, the Ontario Association of Certified Engineering Technicians and Technologists.

Louis Savard: 00:49.151 - 03:51.972

Hi, I'm Louis Savard, and welcome to Tech Takes. Today, we're going to be talking about an exciting new program that enhances the quality and value of non-transportation investments in Ontario. Eyebrow raising? I hope so, because today our topic is OACETT's new Municipal Infrastructure Designations Program, another way the Association has implemented the highest professional standards in organizations and municipalities across Ontario. Earlier this year, following a successful pilot program, OACETT, the Ontario Association of Certified Engineering Technicians and Technologists, finalized a new Municipal Infrastructure Designations Program. which includes the Municipal Infrastructure Inspector, MI, or lowercase m-i-i, and the Municipal Infrastructure Contract Administrator, or MICA, or lowercase m-i-c-a. Both are designed to increase the safety and reliability of Ontario's municipal infrastructure. The Region of Peel, unsurprisingly, was the first municipality to participate in the program. Many of their employees are now holders of the two designations, and some are working on one of the province's biggest infrastructure investments, the Region of Peel's Wastewater Expansion Project. Today, I have Claude Gauthier, CTEC, RCSI, and now me, or MII, from the region of Peel, and Carol Warner, SeaTac, from OASET. Claude is one of the first certified OASET members to obtain the ME designation, and Carol is OASET's deputy registrar and spearheads the Municipal Infrastructure Designations Program. Claude, a seasoned civil engineering technician who graduated from Seneca College in 2000, has been an OASET member for 25 years. 24 of those, working for the Region of Peel. He is currently a construction inspector and project manager, overseeing multidisciplinary capital projects in wastewater treatment. Carol also has tremendous experience in public works that spans almost 20 years, working as a project manager and supervisor of drinking water compliance. She is also a longstanding certified member of OACETT and holds a Bachelor of Environmental Studies from the University of Waterloo. As the expression goes, who knows it, understands it. And who knows the Municipal Infrastructure Designations Program better than the people who created the program or earned the designation. That's why having these two clearly experts with us today is so awesome. Carol and Claude, welcome to Tech Takes. I can't wait to hear about this program in the region of Peel's Wastewater Expansion Project.

Claude Gauthier: 03:51.972 - 03:53.834

Thanks for having us, Louie.

Carol Warner: 03:53.834 - 03:56.517

Yeah, that's an awesome introduction, Louie.

Louis Savard: 03:56.517 - 04:16.197

Carol. This is in, these are new designations. So I'm wondering if you could sort of walk our listening listeners through how, um, how OACETT went about identifying the need, designing the new designations and why is it so important to push forward with them?

Carol Warner: 04:17.465 - 05:36.117

Thanks, Louis. My pleasure. So, these designations, as you said, make up two of them. There is a Municipal Infrastructure Inspector, the MII, which Claude has, and then the Contract Administrator of Municipal Infrastructure, so that's MICA. And the reason these were brought about was the fact that, you know, there was concern from municipal officials that these projects are going on. We're not sure if there's enough qualified people to work on them. Also, you know, around the same time, there was the recognition that a lot of money was coming into funding large projects like this. And of course, there's that then with those two things in mind, there was a concern that people are performing the inspection and the contract administration of these assets, you know, they might not be qualified to do so. So, you know, OACETT has always been dedicated to ensuring that, you know, anybody who gets any of our certifications or designations is competent and experienced. So, you know, having these designations just really complements what OACETT already does. You know, the fact that it's always important that our OACETT certification and designations respect one of our very important points in our Code of Conduct, and that is that certified members will hold paramount the safety, health, and welfare of the public and protection of the environment. And these two designations do just that.

Louis Savard: 05:37.521 - 06:15.017

So in terms of the pilot project, I'm wondering if you could describe for our listeners, what was the whole process of getting that started? And then when it was running and completed, when did these new designations take place? Because I know from experience, I've sat down on MESC and and some other communities within OACETT And we always heard about these designations coming down, but it felt like a long time and rightfully so there's a lot to do and think about. So I was wondering if you could inform our listeners a little bit on what was that process to first get them going, get the pilot project going, and then when did they really truly take effect and can anybody take advantage of them now?

Carol Warner: 06:16.198 - 08:37.620

So, you know, with all great things, and of course I have a vested interest in saying this is great, it does take time to bring those things to fruition. And actually it did start, you know, I started my career at OACETT in 2020, and this did start years before that. And it actually was Cam Johnson, who also works at the Region Appeal, who is a very long time now, and he's a CET and he's an MICA now, and he's also an RCCA. So he's got quite the mouthful after his name, but it was a plan that him himself and other senior members, senior volunteer members at OACETT said, you know what, there's this need here. We did so great with road certifications that, you know what, there's another big piece missing. And that's the, as you said, the non-transportation. So, you know, originally it was going to really be modeled after the road construction designations. And with everything, when I came on, I was fortunate, again, to work in the municipal sector for many years before that. So, you know, looking at them a bit more, having that knowledge and saying, you know what, we need to bring this out to some people before we launch it to the public. You know, we have an idea what it's going to be let's talk to the people who actually work in those those areas and and see if it's going to you know we're down the right path. So we did start the region appeal and that mainly was because we were fortunate to have cam is one of the original spearheaders of that. But, you know, and really to have the pilot testing stage, and that was summer of 2023 and early 2024, we actually met with seven different municipalities in the end. And not only was it a big, giant powerhouse like Peel, but all the way down to Halton Hills, where they had a very small number of people in public works. But it just gave us confidence that what we were looking for was valuable. You know, people wanted it and that it was it was we're going down the right path. So by doing that, it helped us launch officially in March of this year to all the membership. And since then we have, and I know we'll talk about it later, we've had over 160 applications. We are getting momentum. So we wouldn't have been able to release such a good product in March if it hadn't been for the pilot group. And of course, Claude was very good in that. I'm not just saying that because he's in front of me, but they were great. They laid it out, we laid out what we thought, and they gave us the good, the bad, and the ugly, and we were able to come up with a really good product.

Louis Savard: 08:39.369 - 09:49.370

Oh, that's, that's great to hear. And yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a labor of love, right? I mean, it's, you know, you mentioned summer 23 to 24 launch in March, and I know for a fact it was in discussions years before that. So it's not, it's not, it's not an overnight process for sure. Now, before we go any further, I think we need to throw a challenge to our listeners right now, because I can't think of it, but we know we've agreed that We know what seasoned means. We now need a term for more than seasoned or less than seasoned. So between now and the next podcast, I'm hoping some listeners give us some input and we'll launch it to the next podcast. So we can, we know, we'll know what to say when those situations come up. Claude, can you quickly just like The designation, it's a lot of work, right? I mean, you're already doing the job. It's nice to get recognized, but you're already doing it. What really made you personally decide that, hey, this is something I want to get. And then if you could give us a little bit of insight of why do you think the region of Peel wanted to get into it? And Carol, I'm going to ask you the same question after all is done here.

Claude Gauthier: 09:50.616 - 10:43.441

Uh, yeah, I guess, uh, as you know, Louis, we, we were invited to, you know, participate in the pilot project and, and obviously I volunteered to help out. I've, as a long standing member, I just felt that it'd be nice to, to give back, work with my colleagues, give back to my professional organization, uh, and to, I guess, specifically help shape what the requirements should be to hold the designation. And I think that like over time holding the designation should help improve the quality of inspections across municipal sector. As Carol mentioned, yeah, there's, there was a recognition that there was a lack of qualified people. And so Peel having, you know, arms within, within OACETT and a longstanding members, um, we decided to kind of partner, partner with them to develop the program and, and again, kind of bridge the gap of, of the lack of trained, trained persons.

Louis Savard: 10:44.430 - 11:02.115

Okay. Thank you for that. So Carol, the question I want to ask you is kind of the same thing, but flipped in a little bit of a different way. What made OACETT want to partner with Peel to do this? Because as you mentioned, you had six or seven municipalities kind of stepped up and Peel, yeah, big hitter. It makes sense. But in the end, what was the deciding factor?

Carol Warner: 11:03.050 - 12:43.163

Well, what really is a deciding factor, I think Claude touched on it too, is that we have a lot, we're very fortunate across all, not all, we'd love to have all, the many municipalities in Ontario, they make up a good size of the base of our membership. And so when we, one of the things when we were trying to figure out the other groups to help is we actually did look into our member database to see which municipalities had certified members. And we really wanted to hear from them. So, you know, Peel had a very large contingency. I think we had a club, we had about 10 or 12 of you folks that started off in the pilot group. And again, this is one of the things, I mean, we haven't talked about the requirements yet for these designations, but you do have to be a certified member. So, we were fortunate that, you know, there was 12 people at Peel. We had that connection with Cam Johnson. And really, they were engaged. They really did jump into it. And we told them, you know what, you're going to have to sit through me talking to you for a couple of meetings, you're going to have to give us paperwork. Hey, they came to the office and got a piece of cake. So I think they're pretty excited about that. But in the end, but, you know, so really, that sealed it for us, the fact that we knew we had engagement, that we had support from their senior management team to proceed. I think they wanted to see it as a feather in their cap, and rightfully so, that they were, you know, these are protected titles, and these are the first designations of the kind in this province. And their group jumped in, gave us ideas, and then they, in turn, were able to say, hey, you know, a good bunch of those 12 are already qualified, and they got to be the first ones in the province to hold those titles. It was great. It really was a no-brainer because of the enthusiasm and the support we have from the Peel team.

Claude Gauthier: 12:44.030 - 13:02.780

To cut it, sorry, to toss in on that as well. I think we have 25 certified OACETT members and out of those 11 have the MII designation and two have recently attained the MICA designation. Wow. There's already that transition moving to the MICA designation, I guess is the point.

Louis Savard: 13:03.693 - 13:28.283

Wow. That's fantastic. Now, now on the piece of cake, a great man once told me that food is the great equalizer, right? You want to get by and you want to get people together and to talk and to get things done. Apparently you provide a lunch or some kind of snack and people tend to show up. So, so kudos for that. You mentioned requirements, Carol. So have to be a certified member. What else is there?

Carol Warner: 13:29.090 - 15:46.762

we're all members ourselves, and we're speaking to the members that are going to be listening to this podcast. So with any type of certification with OACETT, you have to have an academic and experience portion. Again, I mean, we want qualified, you know, safe individuals working on these things, and especially vital municipal infrastructure. So, for both designations, you must be a certified member. So, that's either the legacy ASET or SETAC, like the three of us mighty people right here, or CET. You need to be that first. So, we know you have that baseline. You've taken your ethics exam. You're dedicated to CPD. You have that baseline of experience in academics. Then, for the inspector, we do want you to prove at least two years experience working on municipal infrastructure and sorry pardon me inspection of municipal projects water wastewater stormwater. And then the academic component is we'd like you to provide us with the record of you've completed at least 25 days of academic training. directly related to inspection of that. So, that comes from outside sources. So, some of the things I saw from Claude and the team and others that have been successful, you know, if they're water waste water operators, they've taken ministry approved courses, they've taken good roads courses, MEA courses. So, again, if it's trained, it's from a provided verified vendor. And then also for MICA, for the contract administrator, It's a bit different. The expectation is you're going to have worked a bit longer. So we're asking for three years experience. And that's experience and a combination of working directly with municipal infrastructure items. So that would be inspection. It could be project managers, supervisors, GIS analysts. You know, of course, because a contract administrator isn't necessarily going to have been an inspector before. But again, sometimes they are. We would recognize that experience. They have a bit more training that's required of them. So that's the equivalent of 35 days of training. And it's the same training except for an inspector. And that is something that would be required for them. We also have just changed one of our MICA requirements that if you've worked more than 10 years in the industry working with municipal infrastructure, we're going to grant you a credit of five days. So that'll bring you down to 30. So those are the requirements for both designations.

Louis Savard: 15:48.163 - 16:29.458

Okay, so pretty, pretty, pretty stringent and in depth. But rightfully so for the project either working on or overseeing right now, if we have listeners out there right now that are kind of on the fence, Right. They're saying, Hey, you know what? I have the experience. I have the schooling, but it's really not on my job description to do these things. Um, what would you tell our listeners? What are the typical job responsibilities of either an MI or a potential MIC? What, what's the typical job response that, that have you seen with the, either the ones that are certified now or the ones that may want to get certified?

Carol Warner: 16:30.425 - 16:38.646

Well, I'm sure Claude can answer an MII question because he himself is an MII, so he can tell you some of the things he does as an inspector. I'm going to put him on the spot.

Claude Gauthier: 16:39.575 - 17:16.278

I guess it depends on which project you're on. So I guess specifically at the wastewater treatment facilities, we could be doing anything from, you know, a water main installation to building a new tank or a new building, or getting into HVAC systems, electrical systems, SCADA systems, and the integration and construction of all those items. Cause we're, we are building extremely complex assets. you know, meant to clean water before it's released back into the lake, right? So it's important work and it's very complex. All right.

Louis Savard: 17:16.278 - 17:42.370

Carol, let me follow up with that real quickly, because this is really interesting, because I know I was part of discussions at the onset, before the pilot, even before. I believe I had asked if these designations strictly applied to linear infrastructure, right? So underground stuff, or does it apply, like, no, we're putting up a building. Would an MII apply to that particular work or is it strictly to, you know, water, wastewater collection, treatment?

Carol Warner: 17:43.450 - 19:12.500

And well, Louie, it really is most of it is that way. Again, it's really strictly related at this stage to water, wastewater and stormwater. So basically those are all things that are ground level and below, right? So it is related to those assets because that really is what the concern was, that we have these projects, especially no one can deny that drinking water is the most important thing that there is to everybody and ensuring the quality and safety of that. But again, you know, stormwater and wastewater too, you know, the magic happens at wastewater. Claude knows he's down there at the plant. So that's the magic part. But we are, you know, stormwater really is a hot topic right now, especially with flooding issues that, you know, everybody's experienced. I mean, I live here in Toronto and we've had really bad flooding in the last, actually, last few months. So, you know, there is that that isn't straightforward linear infrastructure. Stormwater can be as simple as culverts, you know, side of the road. And that's one of the things that we learn from, again, why we want to talk to smaller municipalities and not just the bigger ones, because what we're hearing from the smaller municipalities is that their whole stormwater is digging out the culverts at the side of the road. So that's not buried infrastructure. But again, you need to have people that are competent and know where to put that and you know all those kind of requirements so it's a good branch out and right now I think there's enough in that industry those particular items that there is a need there.

Louis Savard: 19:14.510 - 19:48.845

Okay. Yeah, absolutely. It makes absolute sense. Right. You've got, you know, we've got the roads designation roads. Right. So I just wanted to clarify, cause you know, municipal infrastructure for, I mean, I'm, I'm the IT manager for my municipality, but you know, when it's talked municipal infrastructure to me, it's underground infrastructure. So linear infrastructure, buildings, my network racks, my telecom, like that's all municipal infrastructure. Right. So what we're hearing now is the MII and MICA in its current form is very specifically towards water-related infrastructure within municipalities.

Carol Warner: 19:48.845 - 19:52.166

Wastewater and stormwater, and I'll forget those two also.

Louis Savard: 19:52.166 - 20:06.092

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Water. I'm using water as a, see, listeners, we need another term that we need to coin that encompasses all of water. Yeah. So, so that's, so basically that's what it is, right? It's, it's, it's drinking storm wastewater.
Carol Warner: 20:06.092 - 20:06.392

Correct.

Louis Savard: 20:07.208 - 20:26.472

Okay, fantastic. Now I know the program is quite new, March 2024 officially. We've heard from Claude that there are 11 members within Peel that are certified MIIs and two with MICA. What's the landscape looking across the rest of the province, Carol?

Carol Warner: 20:27.870 - 21:32.244

So yes, so right now we actually have 33 inspectors and we have 16 contract administrators. So it's just one shy under 50 that we have right now certified in the province. And of that, it represents 17 municipalities. I had to count it twice. I could not believe 17 municipalities. and one consulting firm. I'm not going to give them a name because I'm not going to give a shout out. We have one lonely consulting firm that's also come out because again, you know, this is although our push, especially at the beginning, was with municipalities and continues to be so, we also want to hit those firms because a lot of municipalities, even large ones like Peel, do have to depend upon consulting and private contractors to do a lot of the work. So we want to make sure those people that are working on the same vital piece of infrastructure also have the designation. So that's one of the things we're looking forward to, to continue to build that, promote that next year. And for now we've got one, so somebody heard something. But 17 municipalities, that's pretty darn good.

Louis Savard: 21:32.244 - 22:13.308

Yeah, I would not have expected that number. Like the 50 I'm not, I'm not going to say that surprised me. I mean, we have a good member base with some large, you know, member municipalities, 50 was okay. I can live with that number, but 17 municipalities, I would have thought three, you know, the big ones, but that's fantastic. Carol, I know you mentioned we focus on municipalities and now there's the one loan consulting firm, but at the end of the day, there's benefits to having these designations. So, in your view, what would those benefits be? Not just for the municipalities, because now it's good, but really for the members.

Carol Warner: 22:14.813 - 24:11.273

Yeah, so the benefits that really we're sharing with members, and hopefully Claude has perhaps seen a few of these benefits for himself, is that again, it's like with all OACETT certifications, so it's confirmation, you know, it's confirmation that, so the member themselves, they can feel, I guess, feel good, warm and fuzzy, but they can feel good that they've been validated. You know, so it's a protected title. It's got another suffix to add after their name. So it actually increases their markability, marketability. Sorry, I was a mouthful. That, you know, they've got further designation, further verification of their experience and their knowledge. And also it is, well, I'm gonna have to check my notes for those ones. But there really is that feeling and it can help them, you know, I guess grow in their employment and, you know, One of the things that we did hear at the start, and which was a real surprise, and it was one of our PO groups, one of the first MIIs, we heard from another municipality a few months later that somebody was doing a job interview of someone who'd left a grown-up municipality, and in the interview they mentioned, I have MII. And they're like, what's that? And that, so this person only had it for a few months. They did end up getting the job. I'm not saying they got it because of MII. But again, this was somebody after only a few months was already using it and it was on their resume and they're promoting themselves that way. So it does make you more desirable. You know, we all, you know, It's not there. It's not a grandparents world anymore, you know, our jobs are not always necessarily for life. So it's always good to add that into your toolbox and extra certification. One thing we do have to is that for folks and Claude is a good example of this, you know, you did talk about a road certification. So, you know, we don't want to lose those members that hold the roads. We also want them to hold this one if, you know, if there's a value to them. So anybody who wants to hold both a road designation and a municipal one, they do get a 25% reduction on their annual membership dues. So there is that benefit too.

Louis Savard: 24:11.273 - 24:27.571

Fantastic. So Claude, back to you personally, what made you take the jump to say, Hey, you know what, I want to do more work. I'm going to go get these designation. And how do you see benefiting you right now in works you've been doing again for years?

Claude Gauthier: 24:27.571 - 25:38.670

Well, to be honest with you, like I said, I wanted to give back to, to my, my company, my organization and, and help out with developing the designation. Um, In terms of benefits to me right now, I mean, like while we were going through the process, I was kind of putting a bit of a push in to try to get more of the courses that would relate to multidisciplinary projects included in the requirements. I think I managed to get a few that are a little more multidisciplinary related added into the requirements. And I think like we may in the future probably even benefit from a specific multidisciplinary type of designation along with this. And so, yeah, like I just I wanted to I wanted to participate. I wanted to give my thoughts, my experience and to try to help help shape what what it should look like or what, what people, what, what experience and, and, um, education people should have to hold, to hold the designation. That's basically why I participate, try to help, help shape that a little bit better.

Louis Savard: 25:38.670 - 26:06.323

Okay. Uh, and now that, now that you have it. Right. You've done the work, you've given your feedback, the designations go live. You now hold an MII. How do you, how do you see that benefiting you in the future? And then how do you see the MICA? Cause I've heard earlier, and I want to put you on the spot that you're thinking about maybe getting that one too. So how do you see those benefiting you from, you know, from now to end of your career?

Claude Gauthier: 26:07.245 - 26:50.029

I mean, I guess it kind of helps make you more marketable. I've been at Peel for 25 years, but that doesn't mean that I'm necessarily going to retire here. I'm sure everybody's heard that the province is looking at peeling out some services that Peel does. And so if for some day or for some reason, if it so happened that I had to go look elsewhere, I think having this designation would be a good, good thing to add to the resume that would help, you know, make me more marketable. And so I think that everybody should probably look into the designation and see if it's something that they feel they should, you know, pursue. And who doesn't want to make their, their sales more marketable and make their, their resume look better, right?

Carol Warner: 26:50.804 - 28:18.225

Yeah, and I did think of one other thing as a benefit, and thank you, because that Claude gave me a little pride to remember this, is that, you know, also, you know, having these, again, going back to these qualified people working on these projects, you know, again, especially, I can speak back from my, you know, my water days, that we had private consultants putting in and making connection pieces and burying, and a lot, again, as you said, Louie, a lot of the stuff's buried. So, once it's buried, it's been done, right? And, you know, by having, making sure you've got people with these designations that are monitoring these, you can have confidence that things that are buried, you're not going to have to rip those up again. You're not going to have, you know, everything's going to be done according to the letter. It's going to be done the way you want it to be done, the way it should be done. And again, we see it as a way of minimizing post-construction disruption. Because we all know, I mean, Claude still works in the public sector. When those councillors and those residents get mad about something, and then you hear about it, and you put a project, a project's gone in, and it turns out afterwards, the person, you know, somebody either monitoring it, inspecting it, or doing the contract administration of it, wasn't qualified to do so, made a mistake. Guess what? You're back down there ripping stuff up again, which costs more money, which makes everybody angry. So, you know, again, this, we're hoping that this would be something that would potentially help reduce that kind of disruption. And still public confidence. It's confidence all the time. Trust and confidence.

Claude Gauthier: 28:18.225 - 28:19.788

Build and rate the first time.

Carol Warner: 28:19.788 - 28:20.430


Exactly.

Louis Savard: 28:20.984 - 28:52.669

Yeah, exactly. Right. So it's all confidence, transparency, like all of that all comes together. Now, now, now Claude, you, and I mean, Carol as well, you both mentioned marketability extensively about, you know, and it's absolutely right. The more designations you can hold that fit what you want to do, the more marketable you are. It's, it's, it's just, it's a no brainer really. But Claude, if you were to talk to me. And I go to you and I say, Hey, you know what? I hear you being marketable, but I'm really still not sure if I want to get these designations. What would you tell me?

Claude Gauthier: 28:53.829 - 29:52.577

I guess I'd probably ask you what you know, uh, what, what are your, like, what do you have in terms of education? What courses have you taken? And then I'd kind of think back to the, the training or the requirements that, that, uh, you need to hold in order to, to get the designation. And so I would, I would ask you those questions. And then if you were missing some of the requirements, I would suggest that you, uh, you take those courses, um, get certified. As of today, it's not a requirement to hold either designation. But in the future, that may change. And then it's also more for municipalities at this point in time. But in the future, it may also be pertinent for the private sector as well. And so I would say like, again, from a marketability standpoint, look into it. If, if you're interested in it and you need the requirements, join, join the, how many do we have? 50 some odd certified members at this point, and let's help build this thing up and get it out there.

Louis Savard: 29:53.284 - 30:41.875

Yeah. So future-proof yourself, right? Exactly. Might as well. It starts now. Yeah. Yeah. Um, the Ontario Housing Enabling Water Systems Fund is a mouthful, but it's absolutely critical, I think, to, um, sort of the, to get going on this housing crisis that we're faced, right. You can build as many houses as you want. If your water system is, cannot sustain it, you're building boxes. So there's been a committed investment of $970 million by the Ontario government for 54 water projects. I know the region of Peel has a major expansion happening linked to that. Could you speak to that a little bit? Can you tell us what's this all about? What can we expect? Where is it going? Yeah.

Claude Gauthier: 30:41.875 - 34:33.711

So as you said, it's going to fund major capital investment and improvements in municipal infrastructure, mostly, you know, water treatment, wastewater treatment and capacity throughout the distribution and collection system. And so, yeah, there's, there's a lot of work and, uh, there's a very short timeframe to, to, to essentially build it all so that we could accommodate the, the growth target that the province has set out. And so, yeah, like for, for our project in particular, um, and the funding that was announced, we were, you know, blessed in a sense to have, uh, a large chunk of, of that funding, uh, given, given to Peel. The, uh, announcement for that was hosted at the GE booth water resource recovery facility. And so we hosted Infrastructure Minister Surma and Premier Ford, some Peel staff, local councillors at the facility, and we essentially just kind of rolled out the red carpet for them. backdrop of the plant along with construction cranes with Canada flags, Ontario flags, Peel flags, kind of all in the background. It was quite the amount of work that went into, you know, a 15, 20 minute press conference to announce the cash, but it was great. It was a good day. It was good to get that cash infusion for Peel. And so regarding the project, so we're currently working on the replacement of the old original plant that was constructed in the fifties. reached the end of its serviceable life. And so about five years ago, we kind of began the construction phase of a major capital program to replace the original plant. It was broken down into essentially three contracts. The first one being the new inlet conduit. So we essentially had to reroute the flow of the original plant and one of the plants beneath it around the perimeter of the plant so that we can make space for the new infrastructure. That was one contract. Then there were a few buildings within that same kind of footprint that housed the maintenance facility, as well as the old admin building and some other tunnels and conduits, etc. And so we had to build a new storage complex to house all the people that needed to be displaced. And then we had another contract, which was to demolish all the infrastructure that was through the center of the plant. And then the final contract, the one that we're speaking about today, the one that we were given the $35 million for was contract three and the new plant one, which commenced in the fall of 2022. It's been moving pretty, pretty rapid pace ever since. Uh, and it essentially consists of, uh, two new treatment trains. And so we'll have two new primary clarifiers, two new aeration tanks, a blower building, and then some final clarifiers. And then with the announcement of bill 23, um, this was around the same time that we kicked off the construction of contract three or new plant one. Kind of with a bit of forethought, um, got council to approve the construction of a third treatment train. Uh, so that we can meet the new growth targets. So the, the addition of that third train being built now meant that we could increase our treatment capacity to meet that new, new growth target and about a decade sooner than, uh, the previous capacity targets. And so, yeah, that announcement of $35 million, uh, was, was great news. Uh, and like I mentioned, we already had approval to build that third train. And so I guess we could utilize that additional funding to free up some cash for other much needed capital improvements within the facility.

Louis Savard: 34:33.711 - 34:36.572

Wow. So you're doing more than replacing the top.

Claude Gauthier: 34:36.572 - 34:40.794

Absolutely. Yes. The whole sink, the piping, the whole house.

Louis Savard: 34:40.794 - 34:43.095

Wow. That's amazing. And what's your role in the whole project?

Claude Gauthier: 34:43.778 - 35:12.318

Uh, so yeah, so my role with this contract is, is as a construction inspector, uh, also, uh, as, as a, uh, technical advisor. And then like from a program standpoint, it was also the project manager for the new storage complex, uh, that we built. And so, you know, I have the, the, the very fortunate that I was able to contribute not only as, as an inspector, but as a project manager and learn, learn a bit about, uh, that trade as well. Right. Or that profession as well.

Louis Savard: 35:13.105 - 35:22.707

Yeah, that's fantastic. Now, so in the team that you're working with, are you the only one that holds one of those new designations or do you have more?

Claude Gauthier: 35:22.707 - 35:40.830

No, so I was fortunate enough to have, again, another, what, 12, 13 people get the designation at the same time. And then more recently, we were able to bring down another one of my colleagues, Mark. And so we've got him down at the plants with us now, helping to build all this infrastructure.

Carol Warner: 35:41.503 - 36:02.158

He's another inspector, Louie. Actually it's, for anybody who's listening to us and they look in the magazine from a couple of months ago, there's Claude and Mark Shining Stace together with the little hard hats. And there are, there are poster boys or poster men, pardon me, for the Purple Cram. But yeah, so it sounds like there's a couple of MII's working on all that. That's perfect.

Claude Gauthier: 36:02.853 - 36:21.442


That's right. And I mean, with, with not just this project, with, but with the rest of the projects that we've got, uh, ongoing, uh, as well as coming up in the future, we're, we're going to need more staff and we're, we're currently making plans to actually bring more, more inspectors down to help out with, uh, just the sheer magnitude of work that we've got.

Louis Savard: 36:22.343 - 36:45.770

Okay. Now I'm going to ask you that question, Claude, and if it's above your pay grade or it's something you're not aware of, feel free to send me away. But you're saying you need to bring in more inspectors. And before we talked about, it's not a requirement now, but who knows. For those new inspectors are going to be bringing in, is the MII designation or the MICA, are they going to be considered as maybe required or strong assets?

Claude Gauthier: 36:47.227 - 37:12.379

I, I would, I guess I can, I can tell you that I have seen a position description, um, that, that was created to, to kind of be able to speak to the increased demands of, of, uh, multidisciplinary style project. And I believe that having the municipal infrastructure inspector or, or contract administrator designation will be a strong asset to, uh, prospective, uh, applicants.

Louis Savard: 37:12.379 - 38:03.812

That's fantastic. I mean, I mean, I saw it for the listeners that didn't hear, I'll do it again. But my Carol was slapping if you couldn't see it, because at the end of the day, a lot of blood, sweat, and tears goes into developing these designations. Once they get rolled out, people get them. But if there's no, I don't know if reciprocity is the right word, but if, if the employee, the employer's fear doesn't make it so that, Hey, you need to have this to get this job, or you need to be able to get this, to get this job, then you have fancy letters that are good to have. but don't give you an edge necessarily over somebody else. Right. So hearing that is, is, is fantastic. When is, I'm going to try to remember, project three, project one? New plant one, contract three. New plant one, contract three. When is that scheduled to be completed?

Claude Gauthier: 38:04.903 - 38:52.916

Uh, so yeah, we started roughly 2022 and it's a four year project. So that would take us roughly to the end of 2026. Uh, but now with the addition of the third train, I think that we're looking probably near the end of 2027 or 28. Uh, before that's completed. And then the, the original design was such that we have the ability to, uh, expand out to a fourth train. And so we've kind of joked a little bit about it that, you know, a couple of years into constructing the first two trains, we're now building a third train to meet the increased capacity. I wouldn't be surprised that by the time we're in 2028, that we're building that fourth train. And so things just kind of continually build. Right. Right. Right. Now, whether that happens or not, I don't know, but I mean, I wouldn't be surprised.

Louis Savard: 38:52.916 - 38:57.802

So 26 for this one, but it could keep going as demand keeps increasing.

Claude Gauthier: 38:57.802 - 39:03.409

26 and 28 with the additional train. So yeah, at least 2028 by the time we're done this, this particular contract.

Louis Savard: 39:03.409 - 39:30.975

Wow. Again, not replacing just a tap and not overnight. Absolutely. That's fantastic. Now we'll do a quick, quick fire. Yes or no answer. And I think I know what the answer is going to be, but yes or no answer. Carol first, do you think the MII or MIC designation will help increase levels of confidence in building safety in Ontario and complete things in a timely manner?

Carol Warner: 39:30.975 - 39:33.756

Yes, of course. Absolutely. Yes.

Louis Savard: 39:33.756 - 39:34.657

And Claude, same question.

Claude Gauthier: 39:35.817 - 39:40.739

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that, uh, it will help without a question.

Louis Savard: 39:40.739 - 41:11.961

It will, it will help. Perfect. I mean, I'm glad you said yes. I really am because if it was a well, maybe then we would be here for another hour or two kind of debating the reasoning behind that. So, um, I think everything we've heard. tonight, it's absolutely points to that, right? We talked about, you know, the public confidence that the projects that are buried underground once they're done, you know, they're done and inspected, you know, with no, I mean, I say no possibility of failure, but very little because it was done by qualified personnel with the background that is required to do that. Uh, it creates transparency around, Hey, this inspector that inspected, this has an inspector designation. It's not just somebody that has been working here for 57 years and through the years of experience, you just naturally become an inspector because you know everything, right? So there's a little bit more meat behind it. So I'm totally in agreement with, with both of you that, uh, either of these designations should, should elevate, not just the association, But the whole public's perception of these large projects, right. Cause let's face it, nobody wants, uh, you know, a wastewater treatment plant to fail and all of a sudden flood a neighborhood, right. That that's just never good press. Um, so no, this is, this is fantastic. Um, Carol, I come and knock at your door. I want more information about, Hey, I've heard the podcast. You guys sound awesome. How do I get this designation? What, what do you tell me?

Carol Warner: 41:13.167 - 41:34.378

So I tell you what most people tell you for any answers like that is visit the OACETT website. We do have a municipal infrastructure page, which coincidentally enough has Claude's face on it. He's our free model. He really didn't, other than that piece of cake last year, he's gotten nothing since. Yeah, I'm still waiting for my paycheck. Yeah. Yeah. Keep waiting, buddy. You're not getting anything.
Claude Gauthier: 41:34.717 - 41:35.697

Where's my royalties?

Carol Warner: 41:35.697 - 42:04.543

Yeah, no, sorry, no residuals for that. So yes, we do have a municipal infrastructure webpage that tells the details that we, you know, high level the requirements we just mentioned. And we always invite anybody who has questions about any OACETT certification to email my certification team at certify at OACETT.org. That's a very easy one to remember. And yeah, it's easy to get you started. We'd be delighted to hear from anybody who's interested to get one of these designations.

Louis Savard: 42:05.624 - 42:09.727

Fantastic. Claude, any final words?

Claude Gauthier: 42:09.727 - 42:27.121

Um, no, not really. I mean, I guess just out to, to the rest of the OACETT membership, uh, take a look at this, uh, this new designate or these new designations and, um, see if they, they're a fit for you. Yeah. Let's build this thing up and, um, keep building the great things that we're building.

Louis Savard: 42:27.121 - 42:30.724

Awesome. And Carol, I started with you. Might as well finish with you. Final words.

Carol Warner: 42:31.909 - 42:57.235

Final words, well it's, you know, it's something near and dear to my heart. I'm very thankful to have this opportunity to be able to share this program with our faithful listeners and also to, again, you know, support the mandate that OACETT is only certifying people to, you know, instill this confidence that, you know, we're doing what's right and we are professional and dedicated and this is just one other thing for people to have in their toolbox to prove that.

Louis Savard: 42:58.601 - 43:39.682


Well, there you have it, folks. Thank you, Carol and Claude for telling us more about the municipal infrastructure designations and the region of Peel's wastewater expansion project. I know personally, I truly feel that more municipalities and OACETT members listening and non-members who knows this may be a catalyst for someone to say, Hey, I want to be part of this, you know. definitely now more looped into what this program is and its benefit to Ontario as a whole. It's exciting to see how the new designations align perfectly with our province's infrastructure projects and the growth of the wastewater facilities that need to happen for housing to keep growing. It just can't get around that. So Carol, Claude, thank you very much.

Carol Warner: 43:39.682 - 43:41.042

Thank you so much.

Claude Gauthier: 43:41.042 - 43:43.683

Thanks. Thanks for having me, Louis. Thanks, Carol.

Carol Warner: 43:43.683 - 43:43.963

Awesome.

Louis Savard: 43:45.383 - 44:24.153

And on a personal note, I really look forward to seeing how these designations continue supporting the transformation of Ontario's infrastructure for many, many, many years. More flags, more 15-minute press conferences. We need them across the province. Let's get it done. As always, I want to thank our listeners for joining us. Remember, if you're interested in learning more about today's topic, or if you had a topic you'd like us to feature in a future podcast, please email us at techtakes at OACETT dot org. That's techtakes, t-e-c-h, t-a-k-e-s, at OACETT, o-a-c-e-t-t, dot org. Till next time, bye for now.