The built environment accounts for 39 percent of annual global CO2 emissions, according to the World Green Building Council and Passive House is widely recognized as the most powerful tool we have today to produce buildings that help to mitigate these emissions. Ontarians like most people worldwide want a level of comfort and safety in their homes and passive houses offers that.
Greg Leskien, a certified Passive House consultant and C.E.T., an expert in the design, construction review, and verification of buildings, passive houses, and solar photovoltaic systems chats with host Louis Savard, C.Tech., about Passive House technology which could be the next generation of homes with you in mind, offering supreme insulation, quietness, energy-efficient and lots of fresh, clean air.
Have a topic you’d like to discuss or comments about the episode? Reach us at techtakes@oacett.org
The built environment accounts for 39 percent of annual global CO2 emissions, according to the World Green Building Council and Passive House is widely recognized as the most powerful tool we have today to produce buildings that help to mitigate these emissions. Ontarians like most people worldwide want a level of comfort and safety in their homes and passive houses offers that.
Greg Leskien, a certified Passive House consultant and C.E.T., an expert in the design, construction review, and verification of buildings, passive houses, and solar photovoltaic systems chats with host Louis Savard, C.Tech., about Passive House technology which could be the next generation of homes with you in mind, offering supreme insulation, quietness, energy-efficient and lots of fresh, clean air.
Have a topic you’d like to discuss or comments about the episode? Reach us at techtakes@oacett.org
Interviewer: This is Tech Takes, a podcast that explores the many facets of the engineering and applied science profession. It is brought to you by OACETT, the Ontario Association of Certified Engineering Technicians and Technologists.
Hi. I'm Louis Savard and welcome to Tech Takes.
[00:00:27] According to the World Green Building Council, the building environment accounts for 39 percent of annual global CO2 emissions. Passive House technology is widely recognized as the most powerful tool we have today to produce buildings that help to mitigate these emissions. Ontarians, like most people worldwide, want a level of comfort and safety in their homes. Passive Houses offer that. It's truly the next generation of homes with you in mind, offering supreme insulation, quietness, energy efficacy and lots of fresh, clean air.
[00:01:07] Doesn't that just sound fantastic? I'm sure you'll agree that it's something we'd all like to have.
So then, why aren't most of our homes built with Passive House technology? Has the past two years of heightened interest in air quality control and a growing focus on climate change made this technology more top-of-mind for the building and construction sectors?
[00:01:28] Joining me to discuss these important questions and more is Greg Leskin, a certified Passive House consultant, and CET. He is an expert in the design, construction review and verification of buildings, passive houses and solar photovoltaic systems.
Greg, welcome to Tech Takes.
Respondent: Thanks, Louis, I'm really looking forward to our discussion today. It's great to chat with you about this important topic and let's get right into it.
Interviewer: [00:01:58] As I mentioned before, Passive House technology is providing modern solutions to some of the housing [woos? 00:02:04] we're facing here in Ontario and it's not unique to here but let's talk about Ontario today.
Could you get into a little bit about what a Passive House actually is and how it can contribute to a better construction that'll benefit our communities?
Respondent: Sure. Yeah, I'd love to start there. So Passive House is the world's most stringent and it's a voluntary energy standard in the world.
[00:02:33] So it's being used in both Europe and North America and many, many other parts of the world. And there are several aspects which set it apart from other standards and other building types or other construction methods that we use. The first that jumps to mind is that there are significantly reduced energy requirements to heat and cool the building, and that’s mainly because of the superior mounts of insulation that we add to walls, roofs and floors. The high level of air tightness that we achieve when we construct the building, and the really highly efficient fresh air systems that you mentioned at the beginning of the talk.
[00:03:11] The other aspect that is important to know is just is the healthy environment that’s created by using this technique. There's fresh, filtered air coming into your home continuously at all times of the day, and there's a heavy emphasis on the use of low emitting materials.
[00:03:30] Another characteristic which sets Passive House apart is thermal comfort. In fact I was just at a conference where I heard a new term used, called Thermal Delight. So the idea of creating an environment that's delightful to be in. And I'm sure you know that feeling of being too hot or cool sitting next to a window or a wall in your home. A Passive House aims to try to fight that and make you comfortable when you're on those outside walls.
[00:04:00] I think the last thing that jumps to mind is just how quiet they are. In a Passive House because of all the insulation and the really high efficient windows, these homes are really quiet and are perfect for urban environments that are close to highways and things like that.
I think it's also worth just noting that there are two standards in the world that use – go under the name Passive House, and for some listeners today that might be a bit confusing. But there is one standard that was developed in Europe called the – referred to as PHI, developed by the Passive House Institute.
[00:04:35] And there's another one called PHIUS, Passive House Institute US. And both are actively being used in Canada, to make things more confusing. But maybe today as we go through our talk we'll touch on the pros and cons of both of those. Or at least what are the highlights of them.
[00:04:55] But I think what's really, really important just to note is that Passive House can be applied to any buildings and it's important to help ensure that we meet our Canadian climate target objectives. There's a couple that we have, one coming up in 2030, another in 2050, and building the Passive House sets us up really, really well to meet those targets.
Interviewer: [00:05:19] I think you've pretty much sold me just with this intro. But I'm not going to lie, I have – never would have thought that I would put together the word delightful and construction together. So.
Respondent: [00:05:34] Well it really comes out of the whole – you know, it's just funny when you start to hear feedback from home owners and people who live in buildings they don't use engineering speak. You know, they use language that's important to them and that they connect to and the ideal of – the sound of thermal delight sounds much more appealing than, you know, thermal comfortable according to ASHRAE Standard 55, 2004, so.
Interviewer: [00:05:57] Yeah, yeah, exactly. I just want to loop back on something you mentioned which maybe I want to get a little bit more into, is you said it's – they're voluntary standards right now. Do you get a sense that with all the benefits that we've just scratched the surface here, the incoming climate change targets, do you think there's a chance that that will turn into more of a not-so-voluntary?
Respondent: [00:06:22] I do think it will go that way, and there are some really interesting kind of signs of that happening. Especially in other countries, but just keeping it here in North America there are different organizations that have already latched onto Passive House, so different builders, affordable housing developers, the Toronto Green Standard, it's tier 2 – tier 2 and tier 3 reference Passive House. And ASHRAE is actually in the process of developing a Passive House standard now developed by PHIUS.
[00:06:54] So usually when ASHRAE develops a standard it's just a matter of time before a building code starts to adopt that. So I do feel pretty excited about the future of Passive House.
Interviewer: Good. We talked a little bit about what they are, their benefits and all that, and I'm – I would be remiss if I didn't ask you what kind of innovative techniques or innovations that these Passive Houses bring. So I wonder if you can elaborate a little bit on that.
Respondent: [00:07:25] Yeah, of course, I'm happy to do that.
So I think the first thing to note is that the standard doesn't tell you how to meet – it's not prescriptive. It doesn't tell you how to meet the requirements. It sets the requirements and lets people have design and construction freedom on how to get there. Which is really interesting because everybody has different ideas out there. A lot of them are great, and a lot of them can be used to help get the Passive House.
[00:07:50] So I just want to keep – you to keep that in mind as I kind of go through these points. But the most innovative aspect I think of Passive House is the shift in its focus onto the building enclosure. Now when I say enclosure I mean the walls, the roof, the floor, the windows. And basically the standard is encouraging you to, you know, use high amounts of insulation like I mentioned, build airtight construction, use triple-glazed windows.
[00:08:19] And you know, these techniques are simple in themselves. They're not too innovative, but like I say, the innovation is in the shift to the enclosure. The enclosure is the hardest component to replace in a buildings in the future, it lasts the longest, and it's the most costly to replace in the future. So you know, as a society and as builders and designers it makes sense to focus on the components that are there for the life of the building, and that are hardest to change in the future. And by doing that we kind of – we don't really limit progress and efficiency down there road.
[00:08:55] And just to contrast that with the way we've been doing things for the last 20 years is that we've been looking for active technology for energy efficiency. And for – what I mean by that is, like, you build a code-built house and then you put a really efficient furnace in it to hope – you know, to reach energy efficiency targets. But the problem with that is you've already built the building, rarely are you ever going to upgrade the enclosure, and that mechanical system that you're hoping provides you that energy efficiency only lasts 10 years or so.
[00:09:26] So you're putting all your hope in systems that have a short life and that really don't get to the root of the problem. So again, I think that's the most innovative part of Passive House to me is that shift to the enclosure. And there are of course are side benefits to that too. You insulate more, you save energy, you save energy costs. You're more comfortable, you know. Mechanical systems can be smaller, you know, they can use less refrigerants, so they leak and leaks do happen, they have less greenhouse gas emission impacts on the environment and all sorts of things like that.
[00:10:00] So, and it's really exciting that this innovative technique, you know, it's not so innovative, is that – and we can teach it to anybody. We can educate designers and builders. We all have the capabilities to do it. We just need to be shown little small techniques to get to where we are now to Passive House.
Interviewer: So really, then, the innovation is the enclosure itself, and I'm sure that would lend itself to – you know, we talked about, you know, a furnace or a heating through an [HVAC? 00:10:33] system.
[00:10:35] I would assume that the enclosure being the innovation would maybe not force, but entice, you know, HVAC manufacturers to innovate their systems to be that much more efficient to work with Passive House.
Respondent: Absolutely. And there's all sorts of cool systems coming out and Canada is definitely got some interesting things in it. But – and in a Passive House we almost always see the use of heat pumps, either ground source heat pumps, or more frequently now, air source. So, you know, think of your – basically your fridge technology grabbing heat from the outdoor environment and transferring it into your home.
[00:11:13] So we're seeing a lot of heat pump usage. Ventilation systems, so those are the lungs of the building. That's what brings the fresh air in, filters it, and supplies it to your building and takes the stale exhaust air out. There's some really great ventilation systems coming out that are used in Passive Homes and Passive Buildings and hot water systems too. So you're right. There's a lot of really interesting mechanical systems being paired with Passive House.
Interviewer: [00:11:40] So just by asking this question I sense a little change in the pitch or your voice. I'm going to assume you're a little bit passionate about this topic –
Respondent: Yeah,
Interviewer: And I mean that's good, because the next question I'm going to ask you is if you can talk about a project using Passive House technology you've worked on. What were unique features of that project, and how, in the end, how would that have benefited the community where that was built?
Respondent: [00:12:09] Yeah, I mean I think – I'll start with the benefits because I often just get to the technicalities pretty quickly. So, I mean the benefits of using the Passive House design approach is that, you know, low energy costs, which, you know, in the context of, like, you know, Ontarians, you know, getting the most bang for their buck, and thinking about the future, it's really critical to have low energy costs that are predictable in the future.
[00:12:35] And especially for affordable housing right now, low energy costs are really crucial in determining how they're going to operate the building in the future. So that's benefit number 1.
I've mentioned comfort a few times. A comfortable environment is a benefit. The good indoor air quality. The low noise, and the durable building enclosure. I haven't mentioned that yet, but general Passive House has a bunch of durability characteristics that make sure that the walls and the roofs you build are safe over the long-term from moisture. So that's another benefit.
[00:13:08] But there are two projects that jump to mind that I wanted to highlight. And they're very different, which is kind of why I thought they'd be useful.
The first is McQuesten Lofts in Hamilton. Hamilton's a really hotbed of Passive House right now. And not just single family homes. I should mention that Passive House, even though house is in the name, can be applied to all buildings, from single family homes to multi-family to office buildings to even EMS facilities we're working on.
[00:13:37] But the McQuesten Lofts is a four-storey, 50-unit, one bedroom – 50 unites, all one bedroom apartment building in Hamilton. It's built and run by a great organization called Indwell that creates affordable housing for communities. And they’ve – they're on the kind of the real lead in Ontario. They've built about 15 to 20 of these already. McQuesten Lofts was Canada's first multi-family [construct of the? 00:14:07] PHIUS, Passive House energy standard, and it won the best overall project in 2021. It had a couple other awards that the architect was thankful to receive as well, affordable housing category, I think, jumps to mind and an honourable mention in multi-family construction.
[00:14:26] So it was a great building, I encourage anybody to look it up and drive by it. It has in addition to the high amounts of insulation, great ventilation system, good triple glaze windows, all those things I mentioned. It also has a solar system as well on the roof to help offset some of its energy. Not all of it but some.
[00:14:47] And the amazing thing on that project is they really killed the airtightness result. They got about half of what they needed to, but at the time was very kind of very leading in Ontario for a building of that size.
The other organization that I want to mention was Oxford County, and Oxford County is unique in that they have established their own 2050 climate target where 100 percent of all of the energy they use in the county by any end use, transportation, buildings, has to be offset by renewable energy. So they're engineering affordable housing to be constructed to Passive House and to that zero standards.
[00:15:30] And there's a building in Woodstock at 786 Southwood Way that is a seniors' affordable housing development that's one storey in building height, has 24 unites over four buildings. But it's been constructed to Passive House, but it's an example of a project that didn't certify to the standard, applied the standard, but then went one step further and added PV to make it fully net zero. So this is an all-electric development, so no fossil fuels and a solar system now two years in has offset all energy the building consumes.
[00:16:05] So it just – one building shows you a Passive House constructed and certified with some solar, and the other one's Passive House constructed, not certified but made to be net zero. So two good examples in Ontario.
Interviewer: I'd say two fantastic examples.
Respondent: Yeah.
Interviewer: You said 786 Southwood Way, that's in Woodstock?
Respondent: [00:16:26] Woodstock, that's right. You can drive by it and it's a real beacon actually. If you go down there, drive by it, you'll notice that the hospital beside it has solar, the retirement residence beside it has solar. There's another office on the block. The entire block seems to be just filled with solar.
Interviewer: So what was the catalyst there? Was the solar already there before the housing development, or was the housing development there and then other people kind of went, hey, let's do this?
Respondent: [00:16:54] That's a great question. So the solar for the building I mentioned, it was built on the roof, so it wasn’t mounted on the ground or anything, this is actually on the building. So the solar for the project was constructed as part of the project. There is some mounted on the ground around it, but the catalyst, to answer your question, was Oxford County. They’ve really been – they know they need to hit this 2050 target they’ve set. They’re committed to being a leader in Ontario as a municipality and they're incentivizing builders to build this way.
[00:17:26] So for this project, the municipality kicked in some money in addition to what they would have got through other affordable housing funding programs.
Interviewer: That's fantastic. That's – you know, private/public style partnerships always stand to bring a lot more value than people think. You mentioned Passive House is the term but it could also be applied to multi-unit residential buildings and things like that. So very quickly, on a multi-unit building, multiple-floor building, is the enclosure one enclosure or is it multiple enclosures basically put together to accomplish that?
Respondent: [00:18:07] Yeah, so that's – yeah, it's an interesting question because without – I don't want to get too technical, but in general, if you're building one apartment building, for example, the enclosure would just be the outside walls, roofs and floor. OK? And that's your main control to combat air loss and heat loss or heat gain in the summer. That's kind of your main envelope. It's like a big jacket that you put around yourself to keep yourself warm.
[00:18:38] But in small – like in an apartment building you also want to be able to, like, what we call compartmentalize each unit from each other. So you don't want smells and odors and air moving from one apartment to the next. And there are also energy benefits of doing that kind of compartmentalization approach. So, a good Passive House apartment building, and even a townhouse unit for example, they would be broken up and airtight from each other.
[00:19:05] They wouldn't necessarily be all insulated from each other for heat loss, but they would all be in these little kind of like boxes that are airtight with a big coat wrapping the whole building.
Interviewer: Wow. Yeah, that's fascinating. It's again, the innovation is the process, is the construction itself. We talked about a lot of what benefits Passive House technology could bring Ontario, we could expand that to Canada, North America, you name it.
[00:19:37] But why are they so important – or rather, let me rephrase that. Why should they be so important to people living in Ontario and Canada?
Respondent: Yeah, I think they need to be important because we don't really have any time to lose to mitigate the impacts of climate change. Every single new building that we construct needs to be done the best we can do it. You know, within certain constraints obviously. You're not going to build a building with three-foot thick of insulation. There are obviously some diminishing returns there.
[00:20:12] But in all seriousness we need to be using the most stringent standards we can to make sure we immediately start to curb greenhouse gas emissions. If we continue down the road of building code-built homes, which is the legally worst building you can build and still get away with, if we keep building like that we're losing more time. We need to be able to implement a strategy that focuses on kind of the permanence of a building, so like the enclosure and doing the best that we can to give a fighting chance of making sure that buildings constructed from now and into the future can be operated efficiently and made more efficient as more technology kind of comes out. Like as heating and cooling systems get better.
[00:20:56] So I think that's the number 1 reason why I think it's so important that we start to build this way quickly. But I also do think that what else – what's unique about it is, it is simple. Like what I've been describing today isn't hard to do. And when you go through the training and you see it can be done, your first project, you start to realize that it isn't that much harder to do. There is an extra cost to doing it. It's not big in the grand scheme of things, but it's simple.
[00:21:26] And with a few slight tweaks in the way we do things in North America we can build these buildings with the materials that we have in Ontario. And we don't need to wait for any technology, they're here. And they're teachable and it'll help us lay a strong foundation for the future, which you know, the federal government has set as net zero. So by 2050, you know, we need to be offsetting all of the greenhouse gas emissions that we emit, or emitting none. So, and Passive House kind of kind of makes that strong case as a foundation.
Interviewer: [00:22:00] Yeah, it's definitely – from what I'm hearing so far it could be a very important piece in that puzzle, right? To get to that final target. I mean you just made it sound very, very, I'm going to say, simple to implement these types of technology. So then what – why aren't there any more homes in Ontario, Canada and probably elsewhere in the world built like this? What's the – what's the challenge? Where do we start to break down that wall?
Respondent: [00:22:30] I mean I think that there are three main areas that come to mind. And I'll add a fourth in there just to really add some – a quick narrative about it, is just that I think that a lot of the reasons we're not doing it is just because, you know, no one – [they? 00:22:46] haven't been shown to do it or you get a little bit overwhelmed that it could something new and you know, why change something that has been working already? So that's kind of like a 1-A.
[00:22:56] But I think that it really comes down to the first point being it's about personal ideals. I think that if you think about a homeowner and I'm a homeowner and I've been through this before, you have a tendency to be willing to spend your money on things that you can see easily, as opposed to spending it on things you feel or the things that might change the environment. So, you know. I'm thinking like the granite counter top thing always comes up in our circle of conversation where the homeowner's always wanting a granite countertop or a certain finish in their home, and homeowners – bigger buildings are not different.
[00:23:35] But you can see something tangible, you want it. It has perceived value. And there hasn't been that perceived value translated to energy efficiency. I hope I'm making sense there. But there are all sorts of new studies showing that, you know, that mindset's changing with newer generations and people are starting to see the value of spending money for the environment. And spending things on making sure they're more comfortable in their home and that they live in a healthier space and a more quiet space.
[00:24:07] And yeah, I just – I think that that – we're at an exciting point where that's starting to change. But up until a couple of years ago it was a very tough sell. Energy efficiency in general is a tough sell, especially if you wanted a nice, pretty-looking building and you were willing to spend it on X, but didn't want to spend it on whatever the energy efficiency measure was. That's been my battle for 20 years is trying to sell that.
[00:24:32] The second thing I think is like the whole conversation around the total cost of ownership, there's no secret. There is a capital cost increment to building the Passive House. It's something I get asked about all the time. You know, Greg, what percentage is it? Is it zero, is it 10? I personally feel like for a multi-family building, so I'm thinking three to five stories, there's probably about a 5 percent capital cost premium to go to Passive House.
[00:25:02] We have a lot of cases in Hamilton where we've come right at 5. We have some that are more 10 and still yet on some buildings that we did maybe five years ago they were higher than that, and that was mainly due to lack of, you know, certain products or contractor experience. But certainly that price is going down. But even still, a cost premium is a cost premium and everybody always asks, you know, what's the payback?
[00:25:30] But I think we're beyond the whole idea of, like, talking about simple payback. We can't talk about simple payback anymore and try to figure out, like, if I bought this certain type of lightbulb, how many years is it going to take me to pay back? You don't ask that question with granite counter tops, right? You don't ask that question with other things. So why are you asking about energy efficiency? You know. We're at a point, like I said already, we need to start building a lot better now. So the simple payback question has to stop.
[00:26:00] And I think that part of it's – I mean, be interested in what you kind of think – I think some of it's tied up in how we think in North America about homeownership. You know, my relatives in Europe they've owned the same home for generations. In North America I think we'd be hard pressed to think of ourselves in a home from 10 to 15 years. So I think that also, you know, plays into that. So.
[00:26:24] Yeah, no, my number 2 is the cons around the total cost of ownership and trying to shift people's mindset to realize that it's something that is worth investing in, and that, you know, when you go to sell your home building in the future and it's labelled a certain type and it's super energy efficient it's going to command more on the resale market. You know, we know that now and there's studies to support that. So if we can use information like that to combat that barrier I think we'll be on a good path.
[00:26:56] And I think that the third item that jumps to mind is knowledge. I kind of started off showing that, but I think the other barrier's just people having the confidence that they can do this, they can try something new and realize how simple it is. Not many people know this but Passive House actually was inspired by the Canadians from the '60s and '70s, you know, Enercan at the time, or what was – what is Enercan – or what is Enercan now was – was a really beacon around the world for energy efficiency. Other countries looked to us as leaders.
[00:27:33] And when the first Passive House standard was developed in the Austria and Germany area they actually looked to some Canadian research and based the standard on that. So I think we already know how to do it, we just need to remember how to do it, show people how wimple it is, and start to share knowledge. The Passive House community is so sharing, builders and designers are willing to share details and tips and lessons learned and all that sort of thing. And if we can just share how easy it is I think people will be a lot more open to adopting it.
Interviewer: [00:28:04] Absolutely. I agree with that statement. You touched on quite a few interesting points here. For instance, don't change what you're doing right now. Keep doing what you know, what's comfortable, right? If I can touch it, I can see it, taste or smell it I'm going to pay attention to it.
Respondent: [00:28:23] But that's interesting there is, you know – you know, we're here in a – on a talk with technologists and technicians and I think that almost all people probably listening can empathise with when you get into the details, you know, you see your partner's or your friends' or your families' eyes glaze over, and I think historically that’s been one of the problems that we've had in energy efficiency is we've had a tough time communicating the benefits to people who are non-technical.
[00:28:53] And there's a whole movement, you know, we keep joking about thermal delight, but there is a movement now of engineers and architects and builders who have realized that this has been a barrier to common adoption. And they're actually hiring marketing people on behalf of the whole community – so there are marketers that are making suggestions like using the term thermal delight, or using more tangible terms that have immediate reaction, just like a car commercial might. And they're providing these tools free of charge for the Passive House community to use as they try to sell it.
[00:29:25] And I think that's really encouraging because I'm hoping it's a missing link we've been missing for some time is that communication piece
But if I can give one reference, there's a great resource that people can check out called Passive House Accelerator. Just type that into the web browser and it'll come up. And there are all sorts of great videos on webinars that we've presented on in the past. Not just me but all practitioners across North America.
[00:29:53] They also have this marketing toolbox I told you about, presentations for people to use. So it's really about spreading the word and that site is a great starting point for people to look into.
Interviewer: Perfect. Passive House Accelerators.
Respondent: Passive House Accelerator, yeah. Go check it out
Interviewer: So we talked about a few challenges of – around the technology itself. Right?
Respondent: Yeah.
Interviewer: The standard is voluntary so there [may have been? 00:30:17] less of a willingness to impose that on a construction site. There's a knowledge – you know, maybe not a lack of but not as much knowledge as we'd like to –
[00:30:30] But if we talk about the construction itself,
Respondent: Sure.
Interviewer: The construction of the envelope itself or the enclosure itself, what are some of the challenges around that and how would you go around those obstacles? Because we don't live in a 25-degree sunny weather 365 days a year right?
Respondent: Yeah, OK, well so much floods into my mind when you ask that question, and I'll try to, like, hit on as many as I can remember.
[00:30:58] But, I think a really good illustration to think about in your head is picture a standard, like, 2-D house, an elevation in front of you, you know, two walls, a floor and a pointy roof. That outside layer, so the floor connecting to the walls, connecting to the roof and then back down and around again, that needs to be continuous. It needs to be continuous to control air. So we call it the air control layer. It needs to be continuous to control the loss or gain of heat. That's called the thermal control layer. And we also through vapour control layer in there as well.
[00:31:32] And so these are kind of the foundations that make up any good energy efficient home or building, but that really are emphasized in the Passive House standard. And so the tricky parts of construction all have to do with the connections. So it's easy to build – to draw a line on a piece of paper, but in construction if you can think about trying to draw that same continuous line, you can't lift your pen, you have to keep drawing the line without lifting your pen, it has to be continuous around that.
[00:32:00] And you think about construction and all the different connections, the floor to wall connection, the wall to window, the wall to door, the wall to roof, plus all the penetration for outlets and lighting, that is the trickiest part of Passive House and there are some very specific requirements in Passive House that you need to show. Like you have to obviously meet a certain airtightness target, but you also need to make sure that thermal bridges – so that's a new term here – but thermal bridges are controlled and designed certain way.
[00:32:33] So a thermal bridge would be like an energy superhighway where heat is, like, dumped out of your house to the outside. These are the ones that show up really well with an infrared camera. They are notoriously bad from building their ability, but also bad for energy. But you need to design those out of that. So you need to make sure that the insulation continues around and protects all of the penetrations that go through it.
[00:32:57] So those are the biggest challenges. So like I say, airs sealing at connection points, air sealing at penetrations. And then knowing how to construct with this much amount of insulation. So you know, for context in Hamilton for two- to four-storey building, you know, we build a standard 2X6 construction, we insulate them with Batt insulation, which you know, most build like in Ontario. And then on the outside we might use four to five, sometimes six inches of continuous insulation, but most often four.
[00:33:30] But that thickness on the outside of the studs is relatively new to Ontarians. Typically we're used to throwing an inch on or none. And so there are some technical challenges that come with that. You know, how do you fasten siding to it? How do you do brick? How do you attach windows? Those are the challenges that we most frequently face.
[00:33:52] But these are very easily overcomeable, and I would say when I first started out I was super worried about all of these things, and it just took me one project and some help from other Passive House practitioners to realize what can be done. And there's so many of us that are trying things and learning from them that, again, just the industry's so helpful that I think we can overcome those types of challenges.
The material thing, you kind of touched on, the availability of materials, I would say, is not a problem in Ontario. You know, COVID aside we have the products we need here in Ontario to do what we need them to do. So that's not a problem.
[00:34:33] But you did mention temperature and that's a probably for any type of construction, but in Passive House we do rely on a lot of materials to create air seals that we truthfully just kind of don't really – like we just try not to look at them on [another buildings? 00:34:46] we just ignore them and hope no one catches us. But in a Passive House we can't do that or else we won't meet our airtightness target or energy.
[00:34:55] So, those conditions where it's minus 25 and wet out, or you know, condensation on something exists, and you can't stick one thing to another at that temperature. And so that just comes back to education. So you know, for example one of my jobs was to always educate the trades on site and say, look, we're using this material at this time of year. It only sticks at this temperature. You know, you've got to wait to do this. And again, education is where it comes back to.
[00:35:23] Windows is another challenge in Passive House. So windows, that is one of the bigger ticket cost items that we need to worry about in Passive Houses. Triple glaze is almost a requirement – well it is a requirement in our climate zone. And that's not something we do in Ontario as standard, the code does not require it, so there are less manufacturers available with longer lead times.
[00:35:52] But the availability's increasing each month, we have more manufacturers offering them and the production timelines are getting faster. And I expect just like Europe, we will get to the point where we see triple glaze windows more readily available. I've heard stories from people in Scandinavia and in Austria where you can actually go to the Home Depot and buy a triple glazed window, which you can't do in Ontario. Yet. So, I think we'll see that eventually.
Interviewer: [00:36:20] Yeah, I think the key word there is yet. Right?
Respondent: Yet, exactly. It's coming for sure.
What else? I think – the other challenges I think are actually – so I think the contractors – we can figure that out. They can learn all the joints and the connections and the materials. You know, those trades people are really smart and quick learners. We can teach that. On the design side we do have to do some teaching as well. There's a lot of us that are really comfortable with the code-built techniques because that's what, you know, those building owners have driven that need.
[00:36:52] But when we shift, the designers will require education to design details so that they can constructed on site in a way that makes sense. But also we're going to need to do a better job of commissioning in Ontario. It's – I'm somewhat disappointed to say I think the US is a bit ahead of us in this area. Because Canada used to be really far ahead, but we don't really do a great job of testing and setting up mechanical systems at the end of a project and making sure things work.
[00:37:22] A lot of times we're called in and we find that, you know, someone's given the checkmark and said, yes, this is working great, and we find all sorts of deficiencies. Not because the equipment was wrong or was installed improperly but many times because they just never finished setting them up or adjusting air flows. So that's another challenge that we're going to have to overcome. But that's a natural pairing to energy, any energy efficient building is going to need somebody responsible to set it up and make sure that, you know, you don't just turn it on and leave. Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:37:56] Yeah, that's a good point. It starts at all levels, right?
Respondent: Yeah.
Interviewer: It's not just up to the construction company or the –
Respondent: That's right.
Interviewer: - contractor to make sure everything is done. You mentioned over the course of our chat the European standard and the American standard, the voluntary standards and you mentioned targets of airtightness and energy [efficiency? 00:38:15] you have to meet. And I'm wondering if you can – if you could talk to us about how the Toronto Green Standards fit in all of that.
Respondent: [00:38:25] So I'll first off admit that I'm not a complete expert at Toronto Green Standard, more so because we always practice around Toronto. But I do know enough to be a bit dangerous.
So Toronto, you know, Toronto Green Standard has been around since 2010 and it's really Toronto's, like, sustainable design and performance requirements for privately owned buildings that are being constructed in Toronto. They're kind of two categories, a low-rise and a mid- to high-rise version that cover different sizes. So like the low-rise, for example's, less than four storeys I believe. And has about five dwelling units.
[00:39:03] But in any case, both have multiple tiers of, I guess, requirements in them. Tier 1 is required to develop in the City of Toronto. Tier 2 and tier 3 are voluntary and they're linked to like a refund program on development charges. But when you get to tier 1 there's a requirement to be better than the building code, but not an incredible amount. But when you start to get to the tier 2 level they do nod now to Passive House where they – if you can prove that you're constructing to it and certifying to it, you know, you kind of meet the checkmark in that tier 2. So it's an acknowledgement that Passive House is the way they want you to go.
[00:39:47] And the whole, you know, goal with Toronto Green Standard is to slowly ratchet up the requirements to make them more difficult over time. So I can definitely see a future where Passive House is going to be a major part of meeting probably tier 1. You know, I'd like to see that sooner than later, but I understand there needs to be some education there as well.
Interviewer: Absolutely. Education is key to just about anything, especially in this case.
[00:40:15] Now we've talked a lot about the benefits of the Passive House in terms of what they are and their use, I'd like to shift gears a little bit here and see if we can talk about the technical concepts behind the energy efficiencies you spoke about, specifically around airtightness.
Respondent: OK, yeah. So I'm going to try to keep the numbers out of it for the most part just so I don't lose everybody with decimal places and units and that sort of thing.
[00:40:45] But there are what I would call high level requirements, so the big picture ones that everybody knows Passive House for. And then there's a whole bunch of secondary requirements. So if I'm thinking about either standard, the European or Passive House US, they both have a heating demand and a cooling demand requirement. Or a heating load and a heating – a cooling load requirement. So that is the amount of energy required to heat or cool the building over the course of the year, the requirement for that.
[00:41:15] Or they have, like, the size of the engine required to heat and cool it. So like, how big is your furnace or how big is you air conditioning unit? So they have a threshold that you can't be above that. So, and that threshold, it's so low that it really defines how much insulation you get. That's where the insulation number comes from. Because Passive House doesn't say use 10 inches of insulation of this type. It says you need to meet this heating and cooling demand number. And once you start to do the energy modelling – and that's how you demonstrate that most of the requirements are met – once you do the energy modelling you quickly find out you need high amounts of insulation, the airtightness and you need good windows and doors to be able to hit that.
[00:41:56] So that's kind of the first two requirements. The heating demand or heating load requirement, and then there's a cooling demand and a cooling load requirement.
After that you have an airtightness target that I mentioned. So the European version uses a term that lots of people probably have heard about, especially people who are going through the Greener Homes grant program. But that's air changes per hour. So, a Passive House has the target of point 6 air changes per hour at 50 pascals, and I know that number doesn't mean much, but it basically speaks to the amount of air that gets changed in the volume of a house in an hour under a certain pressure.
[00:42:38] But to give you some context, point 6 is an incredibly low – for people who know the R2000 standard you're at one and a half air changes per hour. At best – the best subdivision being built on a tract build – like you know, development might hit 3 right now. And historically you know, you're thinking like '50s building, 1950s, 1940s you might be, like, 10 to 20 air changes per hour. Without we're talking about, like, less is better. Point 6 is very good.
[00:43:07] So that's the European version. Interestingly [a? 00:43:10] PHIUS, the US version uses a slightly different metric. It talks about how much air can leak through a square footage of enclosure area. In any CAE it's also around that same level or better actually on some building types.
Before I go on to some other requirements, one thing I didn't mention that I should have because that – the major difference between PHIUS, the US version and PHI is that PHIUS climate corrects for the heating demand and cooling demand requirement.
[00:43:43] So what I mean by that is if you're further north you're going to have different requirements than you would if you're in the south. And PHI does not do that. And as a result, PHI has been seen to push people to use very high amounts of insulation that seem almost irresponsible in some cases. You can picture a very small building that has relatively, like, large enclosure relative to its floor area. Those buildings would use an incredible amount of insulation that, you know, we just don't think you have to.
[00:44:17] And PHIUS acknowledged that, saw it as a potential problem. And they've adjusted it to they account for your enclosure area, your square footage and your location and they tweak your targets to it. So I personally feel like PHIUS is a really good fit for Ontario. That's my personal opinion. Others would have other opinions. But I wanted to mention that because that is a big distinguishing factor and it has led some of our clients to choose one or the other.
[00:44:45] But going through the rest of the requirements, there are also requirements for making sure you don't overheat. So there's a check that says, you know, how many days will you overheat in a year? How many days will the humidity be high? And of course there's an energy efficiency requirement too. You're not allowed to use more than a certain amount of primary energy at a certain established threshold.
So those are the major requirements. Heating demand, cooking demand, airtightness, humidity, overheating, energy use.
[00:45:15] But then there's secondary requirements like I said. And in PHIUS they differ from PHI, but PHIUS has requirements for low emitting materials, water efficiency, how quickly hot water needs to arrive at your tap, for example. You know, when you turn on your tap you don't have to wait five minutes for water. They make sure that you design that out. So. And there are just a lot of them. And interestingly enough, a lot of the secondary requirements are linked to Energy Star, which is a program actively being used in Ontario anyway. So that's also why I feel like PHIUS is a good fit for Canada and Ontario.
[00:45:47] So yeah, that's a high level overview. But [of course? 00:45:50] would be required to go a lot deeper.
Interviewer: Yeah, well, high level overview or not, there's still a fair amount of thought behind it. Now, if we were to have this discussion and I stopped you mid-sentence and said, you know, because of ABC or XYZ, this will never work. I just don't buy it. What do you say to that?
Respondent: [00:46:15] Yeah, I mean I think we do face a lot of that over time. I can think of less so in recent years. I think at first a lot of that were criticism of the technologies. But as I kind of – I hope I laid out in our discussion so far I'm trying to point out that the technology really isn't complex. We have it, it's available. And I really try to educate people on kind of those naysayers that are saying that, you know, you can't do it for X reasons or it's too hard to build that way, or materials aren't available or it's too costly.
[00:46:49] I just try to show them, using examples, and thankfully it's not like five years ago where we had one building in Ontario. We now have many, many. And you know, we – aside from BC we're probably next province in line in terms of the amount of buildings that we have built to Passive House, and we definitely have to be quite up there in North America. So I think that showing them that it can be done, you know, and taking the time to describe how it can be done and showing them the buildings I think is one thing I would mention.
[00:47:23] I mean I've already said this on the discussion, but I do think, like, when people – I'm more confident now that I'm 20 years in, but it's easy for me now, when someone tries to start to fight it I just kind of go back and I suggest, you know, now is the time we have to make change. We can't fight about these little things and all these little intricate details you're saying can't be done, because that's not an excuse anymore that exists.
[00:47:49] It's up to everybody to start to change the way we're doing things and look for unique opportunities to maybe overcome those barriers. So, you know, my expertise is technical, so I feel like we've really overcome those barriers. But there are still probably financial barriers, but I would encourage people who tell me that there's – it's extra costs to come up with unique ways to look at it and look for different funding sources. I'll come back to those funding sources in a second.
[00:48:19] And I think – I think the other thing that I always try to tell them is just – I feel like education again is still just one of those things I want to get across – you know, to critics, is that that's our main barrier right now. I just think that if we show people how to do it, that it'll become, you know, evident to them that it can be done and that we have a kind of a paved path forward and we have case studies to look at.
[00:48:53] But about the funding thing, I just wanted to come back to, because again, you asked once before about the cost premium and I talked about that, but there are a lot of incentive programs, especially for affordable housing right now where they're supporting construction like this. So there's the FCM, Sustainable Affordable Housing Initiative. That's one. The CMHC Co-investment Funding Program is encouraging construction to this. And as you get more efficient you get more points to get more funding.
[00:49:30] Enercan has a new Green and Inclusive Buildings program. Again, that are aiming to hit net zero carbon and net zero ready. But you know, Passive House is the lead into that. Build the Passive House and then add solar. That's how you get to net zero. So there's those three programs I've mentioned and I know there are more coming online. There was the Oxford County model I mentioned to you as well. And we know that there's some lending institutions, you know, some banks that also will lend money at different rates for energy efficient construction.
[00:50:04] So again, for those critics that say, you know, it costs too much, there are sources and there's ways to be creative about how to get money for this kind of thing.
Interviewer: So what you're saying here is when there's a will there's a way. That's great introduction right there. Very insightful. Now I'm pretty sure I can guess the answer to this final question, but here we go anyway.
[00:50:26] Looking ahead to the future, how likely is it that this type of housing technique becomes more widespread.
Respondent: Yeah, absolutely. I mean it needs to be if we're going to meet our climate targets. Not just Canada's but the world's. It's – yeah, like now's the time to act. We can [unintelligible 00:50:44] energy use and greenhouse gas emissions by building this way. You know, it sets our future on the right path if we start to build this way now.
[00:50:58] More and more buildings are being constructed across Canada and the US to Passive House. For example – just again, I was in Chicago last week at the Passive House Conference, and in the US there's legislation that's incorporating Passive House there. I've mentioned ASHRAE's standards developing the new Passive House standard for use there. You know, these are all signs that this is her to stay and that the people that are, you know, adopting this sooner are going to be the ones on the leading edge and probably have the best opportunities to push this forward in Ontario.
[00:51:30] And I think the other thing that makes me feel like that this kind of building is important is just looking around the world with the energy crisis in other areas. I heard a really inspiring talk about Germany who's in a really tough spot right now because of the conflicts that are happening over there in Eastern Europe where they're faced with a fossil fuel shortage and they're really worried about this winter about the huge cost increase in natural gas they've incurred and about whether they're going to have supplies or not.
[00:52:03] And they've laid out a plan, a very, very ambitious plan, not only to address new buildings like we've been talking about today, but to retrofit all of their buildings by 2045 using Passive House techniques so they can get their energy use under control and start to, you know, get rid of the risk that they have of being exposed to, you know, fluctuating fossil fuel supplies and prices, and really helping – help the German kind of community have some kind of certainty over their energy future and costs so they can control that.
[00:52:43] I see things like that and I just feel like the future's really – really, really promising and I think that I challenge everyone to really consider this approach to construction. And like I say, if they do I think they'll be on the leading edge to show Canada's commitment to making a positive climate change. And yeah, I – yeah, it's just going to be great. I'm so excited to see what's coming down – down the pipe in the future.
Interviewer: [00:53:12] Greg. That makes two of us. I can't thank you enough for this amazing discussion and how much of a pleasure it's been.
Respondent: Yeah, thank you. It's been a real treat. I was really happy to do this.
Interviewer: Greg, again, thank you for some great discussions. I think we all learned something new about Passive Houses today. With this technology and other emerging technologies more and more Ontarians will be able to live in energy efficient homes and we certainly look forward to that. Day.
[00:53:40] As always, I'm going to thank our listeners for joining us. Remember, if you're interested in learning more about today's topic or if you have a topic you would like us to feature in a future episode, please email us at techtakes@oacett.org. That's techtakes T-E-C-H-T-A-K-E-S at OACETT, O-A-C-E-T-T dot org.
Till next time, bye for now.
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