From 3Ps to 3Cs: Building collaborative partnerships that drive student success

The future of work is changing. Students must leverage the right skill sets and credentials for present and future job markets. Collaborations between colleges, companies and professional associations, like OACETT, are becoming more important in achieving this.

In Ontario, the transition from a private-public partnerships model, or 3Ps, to a colleges, corporations and certifications, or 3Cs model, will improve the overall outcome of the student experience, build a vibrant talent pipeline, support industry and highlight the relevance of certification in this trifecta to drive success.
 
OACETT CEO Cheryl Farrow, Seneca College’s dean of the Faculty of Applied Science and Engineering Technology, Ranjan Bhattacharya and Georgian College’s dean of Engineering and Environmental Technologies and Skilled Trades, Rebecca Sabourin, discuss how the transition from 3Ps (private-public partnerships) to 3Cs (colleges, corporations and certifications) expands innovation in schools, supports industry development and builds careers through certification.  

Have a topic you’d like to discuss or comments about the episode? Reach us at techtakes@oacett.org

Transcript

Louis Savard  00:00

Hi, I'm Louis Savard and welcome to Tech Takes. The future of work is changing. Students must now more than ever, leverage the right skill sets and credentials for present and future job markets. I would also add that belonging to a professional association is an essential part of this equation. Collaborations between colleges, companies and professional associations, like OACETT are becoming more important in achieving this. In Ontario, that's trying to transition from a private public partnerships model, or three Ps, to colleges, corporations and certifications or three C's model will improve the overall outcome of the student experience, build a vibrant talent pipeline, support industry and highlight the relevance of certification and this trifecta to drive success. With me today are OACETT CEO Cheryl Farrow, Seneca College's Dean of the Faculty of Applied Science and Engineering Technology, Ranjan Bhattacharya, and Georgian colleges, Dean of the Faculty of Engineering and environmental technologies and skilled trades, Rebecca Sabourin. Cheryl, Ranjan. Rebecca, welcome. It's great to have you for this chat. I think most of us are aware of private public partnerships, or the three P model. Here we think of large complex infrastructure projects, such as those with Infrastructure Ontario. What happens if we change a letter to I don't know, maybe a C, three C's, that has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Colleges, corporations, and certifications model. I kind of like it. Having a professional association certification, coupled with attending an Ontario College that has connections with companies that provide a whole host of technologies or training that makes a workforce future ready. What's not to like about that? Seneca College's joint venture with Siemens, which created Ontario's first Mechatronics simulation and demonstration center, and Georgian colleges $1 million magnet deal, and launch of the new mechatronic lab are a great example of this model. Let's focus on the college in a corporate connection here. My first question is going to put Ranjan and Rebecca on the hot seat. What are the benefits of colleges working closely with tech companies? Ranjan, let's kick it off with you.

Ranjan Bhattacharya  02:45

Thanks, Louis. I hope everyone's doing well. That's a great question to kick things off. So I'm going to go back and maybe highlight what the College's value proposition always been, which has been providing market ready graduates by delivering industry relevant curriculum with faculty who are industry professionals themselves and providing students the opportunity to work on state of the practice learning environments. And given how quickly industry trends and technologies are being updated and implemented. And that's not a mighty means a strange thing for this audience. It's partnering with industry, as you described, the two examples above, Louis, is a very important tool to ensure that value proposition is maintained. It allows us to ensure that the curriculum is relevant, that our equipment and labs are kept up to date, and access to industry professionals for consultation as well as employment opportunities for students and graduates. And, you know, the flip side of that it allows the companies themselves to actually start building a bit of a talent pipeline for themselves. So all in all, it's a great, it's a great opportunity for both the company and for the colleges.

Louis Savard  03:51

Oh, that's great. Thanks Ranjan. Yeah, there's no shortage of opportunity whenever you marry those two together. And I think the you know, the recent Magna deal is another example. So Rebecca, on your side, what are your thoughts on this?

Rebecca Sabourin  04:09

What a great question. And I'm just very excited to have the opportunity to talk about how Magna has really been an incredible partner for us when it comes to our Mechatronics lab. All of our equipment, as well as just the continued support that we get. So Magna and Georgian and have a strong history of collaboration and a strong commitment. We both share a strong commitment to preparing the leaders of tomorrow. It's a bit like Ranjan said, it's building that talent pipeline, not only for Magna, but all the catchment area here in the Greater Toronto Area, but also globally. So Magna's engagement at Georgian is multifaceted, and it's really deep. They participate on our program advisory councils, they provide scholarships that results in awards and sponsorship opportunities for our students, co-op placements, and then we have a large number of our graduates that go work at Magna afterwards. So $1 million actually can achieve a lot. So we have an absolutely beautiful lab, state of the art equipment for students to work on that is representative of what they would experience out in industry. So Magna and Georgian, and we're committed to just making sure we have those highly skilled workers. And that helps the economic growth of various Simcoe County and beyond. So we're able to make sure that our graduates can build interoperable systems, intelligent automation, understand network sensors, cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, big data. So this would not be possible without our corporate partners, especially in this case, Magna. Thank you. 

Louis Savard  05:57

Yeah, that's fantastic Rebecca. And I can speak in previous life, previous employment, where we had environmental labs that were mimicking real life situations, you just you can't put value on that. So the you know, the whole marriage of corporate and colleges is, it's just, it works. And it has to continue. So I have Cheryl here, and she's probably relieved that I didn't mention her name at the beginning. But don't worry, I'm not letting you off this easy. I'd be interested to hearing your thoughts, Cheryl, on how OACETT set has tied into this college and corporate partnerships?

Cheryl Farrow  06:41

Yeah, I for sure Louis didn't think you were gonna let me off that that easily. And I think I'm going to build a little bit on Rebecca's comment about the role that Magna plays on their program advisory councils, because that, for me, is an area where I know OACETT has some involvement. But my vision would be that every single program advisory council related to technology across the province would have a representative of OACETT on it. We know we've got people with the right skills to contribute to those roles. And I think we just need to make sure that we are making the connection that we're putting our members forward. That we're working with the colleges so that if they have vacancies that they need filled, that we could help to be a recruitment site for them. I also had one further, I guess, reflection on the relationship between colleges and, and corporations that I've had some exposure through in my ability to travel and visit some of our chapters across Ontario. And that has to do with the contract training role that colleges fill. And I know both Ranjan and Rebecca in their roles they would be focused on full time and part time students. But I know for example, on a recent visit to Cambrian College, I learned that they have actually established a battery electric vehicle or a BEV training program that is specifically designed to support the employers in the area, who need to upskill their workforce to work on battery operated mine, large mining equipment that used to be, you know, a standard, standard type of equipment. So that, to me, is a great kind of just in time partnership, where the college is taking advantage of its facilities of the expertise that they have in their faculty, and filling a very real need for the transition and the technological advancement of a local corporate partner.

Louis Savard  08:47

Wow. That's, that's amazing. I mean, I don't think I would have ever thought of the contract aspect of colleges, right. But that's the upskilling is necessary, right? So we, as professionals, sometimes you don't have the time to just go out for a full year to get another credential. But upskilling is, is extremely important. But the other part of the equation is that corporate side, which you touched on, and I'm going to keep you in that hot seat for a few more minutes Cheryl. The OACETT 360 corporate partnership program. Sounds like a good fit into that colleges, corporates and certification model.

Louis Savard  09:27

Let's go right back to you. And how does this program tie into the three C model? 

Cheryl Farrow  09:34

And I think it's a good parallel for what is maybe a little bit more of a bilateral model. The same as what Ranjan or Rebecca were describing about their relationships with Siemens and with Magna. For us, our 360 corporate partnership program is really designed to help us develop mutually beneficial relationships with employers, and not just with our members which has tended to be our sort of exclusive focus in the past. It's designed to help position our 360 partners, as employers of choice. It's designed to help them with advanced profile with our members from both an employment and a business perspective, because a lot of the work of those partners is a is b2b or business to business. We also work with those employers, I think, in a very similar way to the way the colleges work with their, with their packs. And that's by inviting them to advise us how OACETT could better serve them, serve our member employees, so that we are taking advantage of being the voice of the profession, looking at trends in technology, and ensuring that we've got services, programs, and even as we look to grow our 360 Partnership Program, of how it might be more valuable to the employers who've chosen to partner with us. 

Louis Savard  11:00

That's great. I'm starting to see that dotted line become a little bit more solid between all three parties. And it's, it's exciting. So I think it's an exciting time. So I think we can all agree that, you know, not just right now, but just overall, we've heard many good things about college and corporate partnerships. And all makes sense. But what about the other C. I said, that's changed a P to a C, there's three C's, the third C being certification. I'd like to explore how OACETT certification augments the benefits of colleges that are working with corporate organization. And again, seeing how we have this CEO of OACETT here with us today. Let's start here. Cheryl, your thoughts on that?

Cheryl Farrow  11:44

I expect to be off this hot seat pretty soon. The certification program for B it's actually critical, I think, to the three C's that you're talking about and is the major way I think that we can have this three part relationship. Because OASETT certification is really it's the students next step up from graduation from a college program, it's the bridge to a professional credential. It's once they've started working and wanting to build their career and their profession in engineering technology. The college programs are absolutely core to OACETT certification, because we actually don't focus on the technical competencies of the students coming out of the Ontario Colleges and into our certification programs. Particularly the programs that have been accredited, but by technology accreditation, Canada, or TAC. The expectation is it's the colleges that are providing that technical knowledge. And we have the ability to be reliant on their capacity to do that. So that's why our certification actually focuses on the next steps. We focus through our professional practice exam on things like ethics, the regulatory environment, professionalism, all of those aspects that are about the transition to actually being in the workforce. So the ideal partnership for us actually, is where the colleges can incorporate that professional practice exam, right into their curriculum, and make it available to the students while they're in college. That's going to help the students fast track into that professional step, into that bridge to the workplace. And from a completely practical basis, it saves the students a heck of a lot of money, because there's a significantly reduced fee when the students take the exam while they're still in college, versus applying to take it after they've graduated. And then I think on the corporate side, because we're talking about the three parts of this triangle, OACETT certifications serves as a third party quality assurance mechanism for employers. Certified technicians, and technologists bring a different level of commitment, I think, to their profession. And then when you add in the aspect of mandatory professional development, that's required to maintain your certification that ensures that they are always going to be current and contributing members of the workforce as employees of those supporting employers. And I guess one final plug when I speak of mandatory professional development, that's another great opportunity for us for partnership with the colleges, because they are certainly able to serve as a source for us again, through their contract training, and through the lifelong learning offerings that that are available through the College Network right across the province.

Louis Savard  14:47

Thank you for that Cheryl. And don't worry, I'll let you off easy on the next questions. But you alluded to OACETT being the bridge, right? And then you brought it back to the Professional exam sort of being back into the classroom, which to me in my mind, being a non-civil person is sort of the footing of that bridge. And I'm wondering, Ranjan, your thoughts on that, that connection between certification and colleges there?

Ranjan Bhattacharya  15:16

Sure. And for the record, Louis, I have no concern with keeping Cheryl on hotseat as long as you like. So in fact, it's sometimes a little difficult to follow the CEO of OACETT talking about certification. But what I'd like to augment and perhaps reinforce a few of the points that Cheryl made regarding so yes, the colleges are very good at and that's our thing, we train very proficient in technical skills. But what we're noticing, and once again, with feedback from our employer partners is that, you know, they would they want to hire a whole human being, so that we were also being encouraged to embed the social soft skills, communication skill, collaboration, teamwork, and as Cheryl said, that foundation of lifelong learning because as I alluded to earlier, technology's changing ever rapidly. So we need someone that's going to be agile and nimble and have that neuroplasticity to be able to gain those new skills, analyze those skills and apply them for what their organizations need to do. The other piece I'd like to throw in is around the fact that a once that certification indicates that there's a grounding in ethics, there's a grounding in professionalism, there is a built in network that students and employees have access to that can be used to solve a number of problems. It also allows for a little bit of a global perspective or global exposure for those graduates, because these graduates now are globally recognized. So I think there's a lot of advantages to that third C certification you mentioned. In addition to, Louis, I just like to add in as well, a lot of these in our partnerships with a lot of these corporations, they allow us to provide students with industry certifications, and I think the in the portfolio of those certifications, they OACETT one is one that would stand out as well. So I think it is something that is very advantageous to our students and gives them that as I said before, that competitive advantage when they're out in the marketplace.

Louis Savard  17:09

Thanks for that Ranjan. And you're absolutely right, you're getting a professional certification and industry certification. You know, man, this whole bridge concept. I've got the footings, I've got the bridge, I'm I think we're getting the trusses are starting to get built here. So maybe Rebecca, you can keep us going here.

Rebecca Sabourin  17:30

Wow, thank you so much. I just love the idea of using a bridge to try and put an image in our heads. And I love structures and statics. So what a great image. So there's so many things that come to mind as I was hearing the conversations and being the last one in the group puts me in an really interesting position because I don't want to repeat what's already been said. So certifications, in my perspective, everybody wants them. Because we want to be competitive, we want to say we've done this, but also look at what I've done and look at my passions and where I've gone in my spare time. So our students are able to get their Siemens level one and level two certificates. while they're here, it's part of the curriculum is embedded into our Mechatronics courses. So level one is really showing that they can be that technology technician on the floor. And level two is that technologists, the person that can troubleshoot the machines, so that certification is very important, I think to our students. And that certification has also brought about training opportunities for our faculty because to be certified as an institution, we have to have at least two faculty that are trained in Siemens level one and level two. And as an administrator, I had the ability to be trained in paradigms, so just enriches how we teach and how we use our equipment. Not to mention the volumes of data and drawings that we can provide our students associated with the training aids. So I love the idea of OACETT kind of being that next family. So maybe you've gotten a bit of away on the bridge, you're feeling a little nervous. You look around and all of a sudden you see your buddy in the car beside you. So to me, OACETT's kind of like that. You're staying with a group of people and it gives you a sense of belonging with opportunities to get together, talk about what you're seeing, what you're experiencing, and maybe even reach out and get some coaching and development. From my perspective, the professional practices, training from OACETT meshes so well with our curriculum, and it's currently embedded in our civil program and our students can get that actually as part of a course. So they actually complete that requirement while they're here. And I wish I would have done that when I was doing my program. So much I'd like to say, the technical report, we could do it with our students while they're at the college and that means that there's a third party that they've got to reach out to. It gives them a real life example in terms of the project management course when they then have to submit a technical report request, and get feedback from an external agency. You know, I could talk forever, I just think there's so many business opportunities with the three C model. And I'm glad that it was something we're able to, something we're able to discuss at this time.

Louis Savard  20:26

Well, I gotta tell you, folks, if I was to take a step back right now, this bridge is looking pretty fine. I, you know, I'd want to walk over it. And I think if we keep talking about it, it'll be a scenic route. But a good one, a very good one. Let's shift a little bit here. And we're going to talk, we're going to talk shiny things a little bit. And I mean, this talk about crystal balls. So lets picture you each have a crystal ball, and if I asked you to look into it, how would you see these partnerships develop in the next decade? But before you do that, before you do that, I'm going to ask you to look into that crystal ball again. And tell me who's going to go first?

Louis Savard  21:15

The ball may not be all that clear. That's all right. So let's go back at it again. So look into that ball look deep into it. How would you see these partnerships developing over the next decade? Rebecca, let's kick it off with you.

Rebecca Sabourin  21:29

Yeah, thank you so much. So I really see these partnerships as becoming very, I can't find the right word, but just occurring almost through osmosis. For instance, I talked to Steve Henry, who's responsible for training and apprenticeship at Magna. And he said to me, call me any time, we're very, very happy to hear from you. And recently, I asked David from OACETT if he wanted to come to our Mechatronics lab openings. So I see you with the ability to reach out to people more easily, and to make connections through LinkedIn, that the three C's partnership might, might be a lot easier, and just unfold very naturally. So using your bridge analogy, again, it'd be like we just found out we have unlimited fuel. So really, we have the opportunity to really just go wherever we want on this bridge. I see our students interacting more between different programs. So instead of having an electrical program, and mechanical engineers, and everyone thinking differently, I see us our ways of knowing becoming more similar and less of a cultural divide between different types of engineers. And finally, I just see the importance of certification. Because when we have companies like Siemens and Mechatronics, that can tell us where gaps are, we can be more agile in how we change curriculum to meet industry needs. One thing is the use of simulation, we've spent a lot of time and energy looking at digital innovation in the academic area. So simulation, I can speak about some things that Siemens have. But most notably, what I was impressed about is they have a simulation where you could choose a variety of different types of factory automation lines, put them together, and then control the components within those assembly lines to see how they're impacted, and how you would troubleshoot them. And on the other hand, faculty can go in and put faults into those assembly lines, thus enriching the experience of the students because they have the ability to troubleshoot and see where they think the faults are. So if I had a crystal ball, that's what I think we would see. I'll leave that open to you to my other friends on the line to provide their opinions.

Louis Savard  24:02

Thank you, Rebecca. You mentioned something that was that piqued my interest. And I hope Ranjan can pick up on it and continue on that one. And it's the concept of this interconnections of programs. Right. It's sort of that breaking down of silos, where these three C's could then really augment all of the programs and they help each other. So that really stuck with me. Ranjan, your thoughts on this question.

Ranjan Bhattacharya  24:28

Thanks, Louie. And just as a disclaimer, prognostication is very hard work. So, but I think Rebecca hit a lot of the points that make a lot of sense. And you know, absolutely. What we're seeing as well, is that we're looking for folks that have expertise in one area, but have an understanding of the other areas. And we're finding that interdisciplinary teams is something that is becoming more and more prevalent, and so that we're looking for, you know, employers are looking for workers that can have that least understanding of different areas understanding at least if they can't fix something, who to send it to, or you know which questions to ask. So Louis, if I'm going to look through my crystal ball in terms of how these partnerships are going to develop over the next decades. So I think in one area, it's going to be a student in technicians or technology programs and in Ontario and in Canada in general, because the labor market is doing extremely well. And what we find, what I anticipate is going to happen is that, and we've seen it happen at least at Seneca whereby we were into partnerships with companies, and they want to actually build a talent pipeline with us, because they're having a hard time sourcing the talent that they need. And they've made a lot a decision to come to the college and work with our graduating students and providing them an opportunity and get into them and talk to them about what they can do. And we have a number of ways we can facilitate that type of partnership so that they can do that, you know, the college's win by the fact that we get some, you know, the intelligence of what employers are looking for. The other area where I think these are going to develop in a lot larger sense is, as an example, we have, you know, we have also developed our Mechatronics industrial automation area quite heavily. And we have a lot of depth in it right now. And we're really fortunate we have a number of industry partners that took our co-op students that have now taken our first group of graduates and a little plug for Seneca. All of our graduates from our electromechanical program, all 43 of them all are employed, right before they graduated, or we're very close to after graduating, I think that highlights that relationship we have with industry really well. But the other piece that we're seeing now, now that we're developing that expertise, is that a lot of companies will come in and they see the colleges as an innovation hub. So they have a problem, they can come to us and talk to us about kind of what their what their needs are. And we're dealing with a company right now in that in that area specifically, and because of the breadth and depth of expertise in the colleges, so one area may not have the answer, but we have access to faculty that are expert in the other areas so we can work. I really see that accelerating as well. So innovation, I also see incubation as well in terms of trying to develop prototypes and concepts as a way to, you know, get some competitive advantage. So it very quickly. I think that's the way I see the partnerships developing over the next little while.

Louis Savard  27:31

Thanks a lot Ranjan. Before I go to Cheryl, because I promised her I I'd let her off easy a little bit. I want to loop back to Rebecca very quickly because I have to be fair, and Ranjan plugged Seneca a little bit. I don't know if Rebecca would like to plug Georgian a little bit here.

Rebecca Sabourin  27:50

Yeah, thank you very much for that opportunity. I was just really impressed actually Ranjan, that you indicated that you had so many students in your Mechatronics program that had been hired because that's what we're seeing here is our students are in huge demand. And in most cases they already have offers before they graduate. So Georgian on a whole has over 90% employment rate for our students within six months of graduation. So when I speak to Mechatronics, we're only into our third intake or third semester. And we'll be starting our first winter intake upcoming. So Ranjan at Seneca has is a bit ahead of us. But there's just massive demand for our Mechatronics students. So hopefully I'll have some new numbers like Ranjan in the future.

Ranjan Bhattacharya  28:47

Yeah. Sorry Louis, I'm gonna jump in. I think it just highlighted, I think it's a great news story from Georgian as well. I think it highlights how hot that labor market is right now for these graduates. 

Louis Savard  28:58

Yeah, that's fantastic. Thank you very much. Cheryl, your crystal ball?

Cheryl Farrow  29:03

My crystal ball? And I'm not sure if it's going to be so much a crystal ball or me rubbing the genies lamp to to get a wish here. But I think playing on that whole labor market piece, I would like to see us develop a deeper trilateral partnerships in serving the internationally educated professionals community and I'm going to call them IEPs for the purposes of exploring this because over the last couple of years, OACETT has been working harder to try to develop awareness within this community. We just had an event this past week where we had the opportunity to have some online offerings, as well as bringing some of these internationally educated professionals together for a drink at a local brewery and a chance to meet some of our our chapter folks. And it is an opportunity to share with them the benefits that OACETT membership and certification can bring to newcomers to Canada who are trying to build their network around a profession that they already built in another country. And we also know that IEP community is a huge growth area for enrollment for the colleges as well. So we mutually got some focus on this group of individuals. But when Ranjan talks about the strong labor market, we are seeing what seems to be a disconnect when, when it comes to employers and these IEP's. We hear from the IEP's that they're having challenges finding jobs. And yet we hear from companies that they can't find enough technicians and technologists to fill their vacancies. So we're back to the bridge analogy, how can we create a bridge that brings together those employers in need with the internationally educated professionals who have the experience? And how can we help both groups overcome the spiral of the Canadian experience question? You know, I can't hire you because you don't have Canadian experience. Well, how can I get Canadian experience if nobody's going to hire me? And OACETT actually has a potential solution to that because our Internationally Educated Professional practice exam is an option that the IEP's can take advantage of as a replacement, or as an alternative to Canadian work experience. And it's actually an option that's been identified as a best practice by Ontario's office of the Fairness Commissioner. So how do we get that program better known by employers? How do we get it better known by the IEP community? And how do we really facilitate these individuals being given the opportunity to fill some of the vacancies and again, I think that the colleges can come in once more, with the ability to take a couple of those courses that just might fill the gaps for more modern technology or the technology that's in demand for employers in our regions across the province. So like I said, crystal ball or genies lamp, but that's certainly where I'd like to see us going.

Louis Savard  32:16

That's fantastic. And it's, I think it speaks a little bit to what you mentioned earlier, that's this concept of contracts, right, where you could get IEP's coming in, you know, and coming in the short term to gain that experience or the credentials to then enter the job market. So that's fantastic. You know, I think we're seeing an evolution here, right. So over the past years, I think we can all agree colleges and corporate relationships have evolved. Likewise, as we've heard, today, OACETT continues to evolve and how they work with companies. 360 Partnership Program is a great example that we discussed earlier. But tell me, what vehicle can be created to bring you all together simultaneously, to make the workforce ready and relevant for current and future needs. And we're gonna go back to Rebecca on this one to kick it off.

Rebecca Sabourin  33:11

Yeah, thank you. I think Cheryl said it right at the beginning of this podcast that we really need more OACETT members on our packs. So PACs are program advisory committees that get together twice a year. And we have these committees for every one of our programs. And really, it's an opportunity for us to learn about how our co-op students and our graduates are doing, we sometimes look at specific courses, our industry partners give us an industry update, we provide an update, and then we can chat about where maybe some gaps are being noticed in our students or some new technology that we should be considering, embracing. So a good one is 3D printing, advanced manufacturing, where you've learned that rapid prototyping is becoming very important because it takes forever to machine a part or do subtractive manufacturing. So as a result, we went out and we bought 10 MakerBots, advanced 3D printers. I actually bought one for my basement, my son and I play on it often. So it's these, these packs opportunity for members of the college, members of our corporations or industry partners, as well as if we could get OACETT members, that would be great. That would be the best place to bring all three together. I went to the OACETT annual meeting in Ottawa, and just the networks that I was able to make there. There was industry members, there was OACETT, there was colleges and I greatly enjoyed sitting down and talking to the different groups, including the women in technology because just going back a little bit to the question about how I see partnerships developing in the next decades, I see more and more effort, looking at increasing our domestic enrollment and ensuring that we increase our number of women in non traditional roles. So other things that I just have is working together for microcredentials. I see that as a place where we could get a request from an industry partner, or a county or a nonprofit, could speak with OACETT. And then the three of us come together to offer these micro credentials. So it's just some of my thoughts. Thank you. 

Louis Savard  35:41

Thank you, Rebecca. This is it's interesting, because it really speaks to a true partnership, right? It's not just the you're done this part, you move on to the next move on to the next, right, everybody comes together to you know, pave the way. You know, let's keep it with a bridge. Right? We're not we're paving the bridge now. Right for to move forward. Ranjan, maybe we can paint some lines on the road?

36:04

Thanks, Louis. Yeah, that's great. You know, we've been talking about the bridge. And I'm hoping that bridge has been built by OACETT certified technicians and technologists and because right now we're talking about driving of the vehicle over that bridge. Right. So it's, it's really quite exciting. I think Rebecca had a great answer. So I'm not sure what I can add to it. But what I would first see if I had my way was the colleges run significant numbers of recruitment events in a number of different formats. It would be great to see a bit more industry participation in those recruitment events, and maybe even have OACETT come in as well. Because I've, you know, we find that when students and their influencers come in, a lot of times they want to know what is the path after the degree, what is the path after the diploma, and to provide that kind of that, that roadmap and in, you know, dream a little bit and dream build a little bit, it would be fantastic. So I think that would provide that motivation for the students to, you know, to make sure they make it through the program, take all the right steps, get that student membership in OACETT and then transition that to a full membership in OACETT and understand that OACETT is a critical partner in their career journey, as well as the workforce or the employers also understand that OACETT certification has a lot of value to them as employers because they have better employees. And as a result, I think a lot of better collaboration, a lot better quality of what we're putting together. And I think in a larger scale, a better society. So I think a lot of opportunity there. And I'm really hoping that part of it can come to fruition.

Louis Savard  37:41

Fantastic. And you mentioned Ranjan, that we've got the bridge, you know, the lines may or may not be there, but we're now getting into a vehicle. And I think I leave it to Cheryl to tell us what kind of vehicle are we embarking on here?

Cheryl Farrow  37:52

Oh, well, that would be good, as opposed to that vehicle that's driving off the edge of the bridge or something along those lines. I think I'm going to build a little bit actually on what Rebecca was talking about with respect to the concept of of micro credentials. Because when I thought about this, this particular question, continuous professional development came out to me as a potential response or key to next steps in, in making these partnerships even stronger. Because both the colleges and OACETT we've each described the mechanisms that we have to be able to have linkages with employers. Which means we also have the capacity to gather information about what I will call just in time employer needs, training needs. So between OACETT's connection, potentially a little bit of nimbleness related to program offerings, with colleges having depths of expertise and subject matter educators, we should be able to be a strong team that can get together with quick response to  solutions to gaps, etc, that employers identify and we think that could be a great outcome. I'm also going to put a plug in, I guess, for a broader group that both Rebecca and Ranjan are part of. And that would be the heads of technology group. Because I think that's going to be a key vehicle for us to tighten this three C's relationship as well. I have to admit that it is potentially challenging and also resource intensive for OACETT to try to foster the same level of deep relationship with all 24 colleges. They're so geographically disparate, the programs are disparate. So the ability for us to be able to have a group like the heads of technology, that we could work on with perhaps a focus on a couple of key initiatives. Maybe the international community is one of them. Maybe the concept of micro credentials is one of them. Then those initiatives that we work on together can be informed by the mutual relationships that we have with employers, and continues to make both entities relevant, which is really the bottom line for all of us. 

Louis Savard  40:13

Fantastic. Thank you. I think my job is done. I think all of you got a plug in, I think I'm good. I think I'm done. But listen, Cheryl, Ranjan, Rebecca, thank you so much for spending the past few minutes on this journey, which, you know, got us to build a bridge, paint some lines on asphalt and ultimately getting into a vehicle to get there. This was a very important and insightful conversation. I think the future is bright for Ontario Engineering Technology students. Thanks to colleges, corporations and associations like OACETT, working together, as through these partnerships that we can empower them with the workforce ready skills and credentials, they need to be successful. Again, thank you for the great discussions tonight. I also want to thank our listeners for joining us. Remember, if you're interested in learning more about today's topic, or if you have a topic you would like us to feature in a future podcast. Please email us at techtakes@oasett.org. That's Tech Takes, techtakes@oacett.org. Until next time, bye for now.